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Howdy folks Dang it just seems like this stuff goes on and on. I aint gonna stick up for Az as I think everybody concerned got plenty carried away. I cant recall putting the boots to a cow when its down but I have thrown assorted dirt or other stuff (not snuff to expensive) in their eyes to make a get away. Now I dont want to pick on anybody but on quite a few of these rougher places touchy feely animal psychology just dont work when an animal doesnt see you but once a year they tend to go feral and all the good feelings in the world wont get them home.
Adios
 
Thanks for the welcome and kind words.

I think that abuse occurs when an animal is restrained, whether it be roped or in a chute, and someone is beating on it or kicking it. There is no point to that kind of behavior. It certainly isn't teaching the animal anything other than to be very afraid of humans. In fact it will often make the situation worse for any future encounters. If, on the other hand, the animal is loose and they are going to try to take me out I am going to grab the biggest object I can swing and protect myself. Thankfully I haven't had to do that lately.

I don't see slapping a cow on the backend or twisting a tail abuse. Of course if you break the cow's tail then you probably crossed the line to abuse. A short zap with hot shot has never hurt an animal. To me the line between abuse and normal working activity is pretty plain.

Recently I had the opportunity to sit through a seminar put on by a Bud Williams disciple. It was quite thought provoking to say the least. It really opened my mind up to the possibility of trying to figure out and really understand the beast that we are working with. Having been raised on a ranch I always thought I knew how cattle acted. After setting through the seminar and watching the Bud Williams DVDs I have really had to question if I know as much about cattle as I thought I did. Now I have to try to prove these things for myself. Some things may not work, but even if only a portion of what I heard is useful it will be invaluable. I have always been bothered by the idea that we are going to force cattle, through brute strength, to do what we want them to do. Having had days working cattle when everything went well it has made me wonder why some days just didn't work. I think I might have some ideas now that will be useful.

It is all of this mixed together that put such a sour taste in my mouth with the rough, tough, AZ cowpoke story. I just don't think we have to do that sort of stuff to our animals.

Jigs- There are three teams that I am always glad to see the Huskers beat: Colorado, Texas and K-State. If they win those games the rest of the season I don't really care. Unfortunately Texas usually hands them their backsides on a platter. Otherwise I don' get real worked up about football, so you won't be getting a Husker N from me.
 
jigs said:
we need old AZdiaper rash back here...it is becoming over ran with the Huskers! I am feeling pretty nervous that the front page will be a big red N before long
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don't worry jigs, you wont hear much from me about the huskers. i think they have the week off this week--let me go look.............oh, i guess it says #1 USC, well...same difference. :D just kidding
 
OK I guess I have to jump in....only regarding on how cattlemen treat their cattle.

We treat our cows well, they are used to people being around them during calving season so their calves are used to people being around them.

Our calves do well in the feedlot because they are quiet and don't fritz at the sight of people. We know our calves make money and have for many years. We have no problem marketing them as we have a reputation for good genetics and gentle calves. If any of you have had "dark cutters" it is usually because of the attitude of the animal or how they are run up and down the alleyways at the feedlot. We've got proof of that.

We had to get one of our old cows home from the neighbors, she has a broken thigh. We ended up using ropes to raise her with the grapple of our tractor to get her on a flat bed trailer. We tied her down on her side (she wasn't going anywhere anyway) and beat feet home. Got her rolled off of the trailer and she still lays there....her calf is due soon and she is still eating and drinking well. I check her often as I don't want her calf to die because she can't get up and lick it off....I have nurse cows who will take good care of the calf....then we will have to make the cow less miserable. If push comes to shove and the cow is going downhill (healthwise) we will do a C-section to save the calf.

To us a "cowboy" is someone who only wants to ride. Fixing fence is out of the question. Doing chores is out of the question. Sure, we need riders, but not 24/7/365 days out of the year. We certainly have a bunch of fence to fix because of the wildlife. Fixing fence around here is a 24/7/365 days out of the year job. No use for cowboys, here.

I'm off my soapbox, too.
 
Our broken thigh cow calved early this AM, I had a feeling she was going to so I checked her at 12:45 AM today, she wasn't doing anything...yet...went out to do chores this morning and here she is with a little red bull calf. She had him partially cleaned up, wish she could get up, she has a good udder and lots of milk for her little one... I don't think there is any chance of her getting up ever again. I have a nurse cow who will take him (whether she likes it or not) but I sure feel bad about what to do with this cow. She was one of the first 2 who was born in the fall on this ranch, back in 1996. Gosh, I sure hate putting cows out of their misery :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I will have some pics posted next couple of days. The little calf I call "Little Red", our 2nd red calf born on this ranch this year. Apparently we have a bull who throws red calves :wink:

I have no probs with black or red, they still look the same hanging....

Kinda adds a little color to our predominantly black herd :)
 
Hanta - I'm new around here, been watching from the wings for a bit to get a feel for the place, but I finally had to jump on and say something (should be doing bookwork but any excuse you know, LOL).

Love the sound of reason in your voice, and the herdsmanship you show to your animals through your story about your cow. Sorry for the end result, but that's just another part of good herdsmanship.

Folks, I didn't "see" a lot of the poking back and forth, but I am of the frame of mind that PETA has enough old footage out there that they don't need this kind of thing to fuel their fires. Rather see one bad apple called out then the whole bunch rotting from close contact.

But, don't throw the Cowboy out with the manure. We've been blessed to have good friends who start as cowboys and become herdsmen when you take the time to mentor them. :) Work is a lot more enjoyable on the back of a good horse, but only when done right.
 
Hanta, if your new baby is like Junior was, he'll figure out how to suck!

We got Junior when he was about a day old, and I saw that little sucker suck from his "down" mama........sure saved his life, cause we didn't have any colostrum to give him. If nothing else, try to milk some from her, and give him. I know it makes a world of difference in how they do later on.......or even if they live or not.

Back in my childhood days, dad would milk colostrum from the milk cows (we had 2 of them) when they'd calve, and freeze it in those little half pint milk cartons we got at school.....then if we ended up with a dogie, we just thawed one out, gave it to them a time or three, and they usually did good, if we found them in time.

Good luck, and I sure don't envy you the job you're facing........

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 
doublebarr, thank you for your kind words. I'd rather be reading Ranchers.net stories than bookwork, too :lol:

Ranchy, the cow has one teat exposed, I milked it out yesterday and fed it to the calf, a friend of mine gave me a number of gallons of goat milk (better and cheaper than calf milk replacer) and he is doing well. I put him in the barn last night, gave him a bottle, then this morning gave him another bottle and let him out to be with his mom. She was soooo glad to see him.

I, too get colostrum from my nurse cows and freeze it for times like this. This case, I can still milk out colostrum from 1 quarter for another day or so, it should be good enough for this calf. He's doing really, really well.

Now to get one of our nurse cows in.....
 
We've saved several calves on goat's milk. Usually, we had one fresh, so no big deal. When Junior got sick (that ecoli scours deal reared its ugly head again) we had to buy goat milk.........all we could get is canned, and it was $2.08 for a can! Still, it only took 5 cans, and we have 3 left over, in case we ever need it again......so pretty cheap considering it saved Junior's life.

The first calf we hooked up to a goat was a Holstein that FIL had gotten for their milk cow. The other one he got had already died, and it sure looked like Bubba was headed the same direction, so he just brought him up and said if we could save him, we could have him. Got one of the harder to milk goats in the stantion (she liked to kick), showed him where the spiggot was, and he went to work. She still kicked, but Bubba hung on, and it wasn't long before that goat preferred to be hand milked, than to turn Bubba loose on her. lol He got to be a huge thing, and made lots of good meat in the freezer.......traded half of him for our second computer, even. And still had lots of meat left.

That goat milk is good stuff, all right! Glad that your little red baby is doing well, and that he gets to spend some time with his ole ma.
 
After the first week or so...we'd always mix in a bit of Karo syrup and some GatorAid.


Momma Cow served you well...bury her with honors when the time comes.

Man, imagine..having a baby & having a broke leg @ the same time.... OUCH!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
 
you women and your complaining of birth.....gimme a break! you don't hear us men bitching about putting the kid in there do ya??
 
jigs said:
you women and your complaining of birth.....gimme a break! you don't hear us men bitching about putting the kid in there do ya??
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I don't ever bitch about doing it but I sure beg before.
 
You guys just don't understand women! Heck, I had mine crawling on her hands and knees to me just this morning!

She was yelling, "come out from under that bed and fight like a man you S.O.B! :shock:
 
WOW- the things you miss while in the hospital!! :lol:
Now I'll have to go back and read all that,when I have time..
 
peg4x4 said:
WOW- the things you miss while in the hospital!! :lol:
Now I'll have to go back and read all that,when I have time..
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Oh...peg...it will make you head spin for sure. You HAVE missed a lot.


Hope all is well and healing!
 
All is healing,but slowley..Have a spot that looks like is gonna make a big scar-still draining..Have Dr app in Austin Tue,so will see what's what.Dr here cultured drainageand nothing grew,so guess will take more time. Wish I could let the sun shine on it,but is real hard place to expose.
However,I've beaten cancer twice now,do NOT want to try for three.
 

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