Gun Control I would approve of.

[aplusmnt]

I can not believe I am going to say this, I am usually against any new gun control laws. But the recent VT shooting got me thinking. I actually did not know that a person in his situation with a green card could buy a gun in the U.S.

If I understand it correctly he was not a U.S. Citizen, but was a Legal Permanent resident with a green card.

I believe you should have to be an Actual United States Citizen to purchase a gun in the U.S. not just a legal resident.

 

[andybob]

Thank you for the vote of confidence Aplusmnt, even the Brits let me own a shotgun and rifle, after a screening process, so as to be able to protect my and my employers' livestock. Are you available at short notice to shoot the stray dogs in my area when they harass my cattle?

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Yaaaa,cause the only crazy,gun killing people in the US are immigrants :roll: :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Gun laws have never done anything to help stop any killings...This current Federal Firearms law is a farce that just hinders the honest person when they purchase a gun-- and was a good touchy feely thing for the Libs- but has done nothing in stopping someone who wants to commit a crime with a gun....

Strict enforcement of laws against those that misuse guns are much more worthwhile.......

A+-- do you think we should not let the green card aliens that are serving in the US military services pack a weapon :???:

 

[aplusmnt]

Ok I knew I would get a lot of crap for this one! But it is not only a gun issue for me, but I have pretty conservative views on many issues for people that are not citizens of the U.S.

I do not believe they should be able to own a home or a business. I believe we can have green card work permits for temporary workers. But you should not be able to own part of America rather it is the Chinese buying businesses or the Japanese buying land or non Citizens buying guns.

Basically you would be visitors to the U.S. more or less tourist until you become a citizen. I have no problem with you becoming citizens and then buy all the guns you wish.

But if I being born and raised in America can not carry my legally owned Pistol with me when I go on vacation to see the Statue of Liberty then I do not think non Citizens should be able to buy them here.

If we do not limit it to U.S. Citizens then where do we limit it? Why should a Green Card worker be able to buy a Glock but a person on an extend vacation from Iran not be able to buy one? Seems being a Citizen of the U.S. is a good starting point for being able to buy a gun. You have to be a citizen to vote for those that pass the gun laws, so why not have to be one to buy a gun?

 

[aplusmnt]

Yaaaa,cause the only crazy,gun killing people in the US are immigrants :roll: :roll:

NO! But if most of these countries won't even let their own citizens have weapons Then why should the be allowed to come here and buy them, with out first becoming a legal citizen.

Canada and Britain both have way stricter gun laws than us do they not? If a British Citizen can not own a Glock 9mm in his own country, why should my country allow him to own one, with out at least jumping through the hoops and making his pledge to up hold our laws and constitution?

Seems pretty logical to me!

Some rights really should be earned not just given out freely because someone thinks they are entitled to them. I would not go to some other country and think I am owed the same rights and privileges of their Citizens.

For some reason everyone thinks the U.S. should just allow foreigners to do as they please but they do not return that same privilege to us.

Well when ever I can come to Canada and buy me a Glock 9mm then I will openly welcome you to come to the U.S. and buy yourself one! :roll:

 

[aplusmnt]

A+-- do you think we should not let the green card aliens that are serving in the US military services pack a weapon :???:

Lets think about it, 18, 19 and 20 year old soldiers are not old enough to buy a Glock Pistol. They are not even old enough to buy a beer in the U.S.

So guess the logic of Green Card servicemen does not hold up. Military dances to a whole other drummer than the rest of us.

Seems a few things should be held put for citizens only. Whats that old saying about who is going to buy the cow if you give the milk away for free. Why not hold some milk until the Marry the U.S. by becoming citizens, you know lets not let them vote or buy guns. Lets save a few privileges for them to earn. :wink:

 

[Mrs.Greg]

I gather you don't read what I write our gun control has done NOTHING to control violence in Canada,it was implemented by a misguided Liberal government...guess what the criminals STILL buy thier guns illegally and{shock of shock} don't register them. Instead of agreeing with a silly proposition in your proposed gun control,go out of your way and fight it :!:

It annoys me that you think any of the American students and teachers should carry guns,but in case you missed that part about the Virginia killings,if you had your way it wouldn't have worked anyway because the classroom this young man died in was the french class....the prof that died in that class was CANADIAN.

 

[aplusmnt]

Instead of agreeing with a silly proposition in your proposed gun control,go out of your way and fight it :!:

I oppose all gun control laws for OUR Citizens. But I do not think that it is that outlandish to believe that before you are entitled to the liberties that our founding fathers gave their lives for, that being the right to bear arms you should at least have to be part of this Country.

Every year brings more feelings and demands of entitlement from foreigners in our Country. The world complains the U.S. tries to tell other countries what to do.

But do you realize how many people come to our country and then feel they are entitled to the same privileges and constitutional rights that our citizens enjoy?

Well I believe certain constitutional rights should be held out for those that were either born here, or at least have made a pledge to up hold that very constitution by becoming a U.S. Citizen that will grant them the right to bear arms.

What else do you think foreigners are entitled to? Should we let them vote just because they have a green card? Should they get Social Security benefits? Free Schooling? Food Stamps? Where do we get to draw the line within our own country?

 

[Mrs.Greg]

It annoys me that you think any of the American students and teachers should carry guns,but in case you missed that part about the Virginia killings,if you had your way it wouldn't have worked anyway because the classroom this young man died in was the french class....the prof that died in that class was CANADIAN.

Aplus....you skirted this issue. Teachers should be allowed to bear arms in the classrooms BUT not immigrants..... :???: So the kids that were in this Canadian teachers class would not have been safe anyway :!: And trust me Canadas gun control laws would NOT have stopped this student from having the guns he had...he would just have gotten them illegally instead of legally.

Don't think I don't understand some of your points Aplus,trust me we have alot of the issues you have,and I agree with alot of your points...just NOT this one

 

[aplusmnt]

It annoys me that you think any of the American students and teachers should carry guns,but in case you missed that part about the Virginia killings,if you had your way it wouldn't have worked anyway because the classroom this young man died in was the french class....the prof that died in that class was CANADIAN.

Aplus....you skirted this issue. Teachers should be allowed to bear arms in the classrooms BUT not immigrants..... :???: So the kids that were in this Canadian teachers class would not have been safe anyway :!: And trust me Canadas gun control laws would NOT have stopped this student from having the guns he had...he would just have gotten them illegally instead of legally.

Don't think I don't understand some of your points Aplus,trust me we have alot of the issues you have,and I agree with alot of your points...just NOT this one

I do realize to advocate any gun control goes against my conservative values. That is why I knew i was opening a can of worms. When it comes to issues like gun control or abortion feelings can get pretty strong.

To be honest I would probably respect someone that disagrees with me more than someone that jumps on my bandwagon on this issue. :wink:

As for the Canadian Teacher, I do not just believe teachers should be able to carry guns but the students also (if legal age). So some American Student could have taken the shooter out for the non citizen teacher.

I actually doubt many teachers especially on College level would want to carry a gun. The majority are usually very liberal and anti gun. So I am not big on pushing guns on a bunch of libs, not sure they could handle it!

 

[andybob]

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country, and bringing qualifications and experience into jobs that cannot be filled locally. Having brought enough foriegn currency with me to buy a property, cars and a household of furniture, why may I not own my home here? It will take many years to be approved for citizenship so why must I be further handicapped in setting up a new life?
As you said, the Brits are more stict, yet I was allowed gun permits as a resident, because I passed the screening, despite being considered guilty of treason due to serving in the Rhodesian army after UDI.
Non residents owned properties in my country, and tourists were allowed temporary gun permits for safari tours. I have invested in your country, one of my (Rhodesian born) children has served in the Iraq war, and despite being displaced in a violent politically motivated land grab, have never asked for refugee status, but have along with my family worked our way back up from having nothing, to where we are now, more constraints would be an injustice to we hard working, law abiding people who are willing to earn our residence and hopefully, citizenship through investment and hard work as is the case in other countries which respect personal liberty.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Look what this immigrant did...he try'ed to save American childrens lives


A hero's funeral

Earlier Friday, a professor who has emerged as one of the tragic heroes of the shooting massacre was buried in Israel in a traditional Jewish funeral.

Liviu Librescu, a 76-year-old aeronautics engineer and lecturer at the school, survived the Holocaust only to be gunned down as he attempted to save his students from the gunman.

Librescu, who died while trying to barricade the door of his classroom and protect his students, was one of 32 people killed Monday by Cho, who also took his own life.

At Librescu's funeral his grieving family sobbed and his two sons intoned the Kaddish, the Hebrew prayer for the dead, The Associated Press reports.

"It's so painful for me to think of your last moments, in which you suffered. I'll never know what went through your mind, but I hope very much that wherever you are, you will watch over your family,'' Librescu's weeping wife, Marlena, said.

Librescu was awarded posthumously Romania's highest medal for his scientific achievements and heroism, by Georgi Angelescu, a representative of the Romanian government.

"I walked through the streets today with my head held high because I have such a father,'' said his elder son, Joe.

The family said numerous students had sent them emails explaining how Librescu died buying time for his students to flee.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee,'' Joe Librescu told The Associated Press after the massacre. "Students started opening windows and jumping out.''

Librescu was a child in Nazi-allied Romania during the Second World War, and was deported with his family to Transnistria, and then to a ghetto in Focsani, his son said. About 280,000 and 380,000 Jews were killed by the Romanian regime during the war.

The family moved to Israel in 1978, but left in 1985 for Virginia, where Librescu took a position teaching mathematics and engineering at the university

With

 

[Mrs.Greg]

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country, and bringing qualifications and experience into jobs that cannot be filled locally. Having brought enough foriegn currency with me to buy a property, cars and a household of furniture, why may I not own my home here? It will take many years to be approved for citizenship so why must I be further handicapped in setting up a new life?
As you said, the Brits are more stict, yet I was allowed gun permits as a resident, because I passed the screening, despite being considered guilty of treason due to serving in the Rhodesian army after UDI.
Non residents owned properties in my country, and tourists were allowed temporary gun permits for safari tours. I have invested in your country, one of my (Rhodesian born) children has served in the Iraq war, and despite being displaced in a violent politically motivated land grab, have never asked for refugee status, but have along with my family worked our way back up from having nothing, to where we are now, more constraints would be an injustice to we hard working, law abiding people who are willing to earn our residence and hopefully, citizenship through investment and hard work as is the case in other countries which respect personal liberty.

I brought this post up...I didn't want it to be missed

 

[aplusmnt]

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country.

If you feel that way about America and its policy then why come here? The world is a big place you know? You telling me that America was the only place you could find to live in all the world?

To be honest your comment above proves my point. Why do you feel entitled to live here, just because things went bad for you abroad? Would France not let you in? England? Spain?

It will take many years to be approved for citizenship so why must I be further handicapped in setting up a new life?

Why should you not be? Why are you entitled to anything from America? This attitude is what I am talking about!

Booo hooo you can not own a gun until you become a citizen! I went to Mexico a couple years ago on vacation, I would have loved to had a gun in the car but I could not, their laws would not allow it. I had two choices, be a big man and go with no gun or stay home.

I say you are entitled to that same choice I had in Mexico, if you are to afraid to live her with no gun UNTIL you are a citizen then stay home!

Personally with your victim attitude blaming America because you are forced to live in America, I would prefer you were not here!

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Oh now you pissed me off Aplus...your more then ignorant post to andybob really did it. Obviously you only read what you want. Had you ever read ANYTHING andybob has written about his expierences in his homeland you would NEVER have answered him the way you did :!: I'm also disappointed in your fellow country men that also have praised andybobs previous posts haven't stood up and told you what you wrote was WRONG.

Its because of Americans like you that your other fellow Americans have to wear Canadian Maple Leafs when they travel abroad :evil:

 

[andybob]

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country.

If you feel that way about America and its policy then why come here? The world is a big place you know? You telling me that America was the only place you could find to live in all the world?

To be honest your comment above proves my point. Why do you feel entitled to live here, just because things went bad for you abroad? Would France not let you in? England? Spain?

It will take many years to be approved for citizenship so why must I be further handicapped in setting up a new life?

Why should you not be? Why are you entitled to anything from America? This attitude is what I am talking about!

Booo hooo you can not own a gun until you become a citizen! I went to Mexico a couple years ago on vacation, I would have loved to had a gun in the car but I could not, their laws would not allow it. I had two choices, be a big man and go with no gun or stay home.

I say you are entitled to that same choice I had in Mexico, if you are to afraid to live her with no gun UNTIL you are a citizen then stay home!

Personally with your victim attitude blaming America because you are forced to live in America, I would prefer you were not here!

My friend at work agrees with your sentiment Aplus, only as a Cherokee, he feels this should have been enacted in 1624.
Firstly, I chose to live here because with the present laws I CAN own a propety etc, and I was approached to take up my present position while working in England, and yes, I can work and reside in Europe, Australia New Zealand, Canada etc and obtain citizenship in a much shorter period than it takes here. My question was, why should it be even harder on legitimate immigrants than it now is? I have accepted the present conditions of residence, you are proposing that they be harder. I have many wonderfull Amercan friends who were missionaries or worked with me in Africa, all of whome have encouraged me to come and contribute to their country. My point on interference in other countries is that when policies cause disasters, you have to accept your share of the fallout. I am entitled to as much as my financial investment and the qualifications and experience I bring with me allows, and as in any western country, this includes home ownership wich contributes to stability. Your origional point was that as a resident alien was responsible for this horrific atrocity, that somehow all alien residents are a greater risk than citizens of similar crimes. Companies and your government are still actively recruiting professional people to make up shortages in the United States, my daughter, a nurse, is visiting at present and has twice been approached with job offers here, you need to petition your congressman to stop this practise if you would rather have a shortage of medical and professional people, than recruit aliens with reasonably favourable terms of residence.
Finally I am an overcomer, not a victim, during the persecution of the Matabele people in my home county, thousands were granted refugee status both here and in Europe, all of my people have taken up legal residence in various countries, and worked their way up again without asking anything of the taxpayers of these countries.
And as for your "stay home" comment, wishing my family and I to be murdered by political thugs is a very un - American sentiment in my experience of your wonderfull countrymen and women, a little christian tolerence would improve your attitude toward the disinfranchised of this world.

 

[kolanuraven]

My friend at work agrees with your sentiment Aplus, only as a Cherokee, he feels this should have been enacted in 1624.



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :agree:

 

[Anonymous]

This aliens being able to purchase gun issue was the very topic brought up on the O'Reilly Show tonite- and surprisingly Geraldo, normally the champion of all aliens, was against allowing aliens- greencard or illegal- to purchase guns (but he's kind of gun control nut)... He also went into the fact that aliens do not have and should not have all the "rights" that citizens are afforded- and that just because you live or are in this country does not mean you have the same Constitutional rights as a resident does....

A lot of this goes back to a misguided/corrupt/inept immigration system and policy that is extremely inept in sorting out the unwanteds, ineffective in keeping out/tracking down the illegals, and extremely inefficient and overly burdensome on those good folks trying to become citizens...Another government system in need of total overhaul.....

But I do have to agree with one thing that A+ and Geraldo say-- contrary to what many of the ACLU, illegal immigration protestors, and liberal activists have been spouting- Just because you are resident does not mean you have the rights of a citizen.....

 

[aplusmnt]

Oh now you p****d me off Aplus...your more then ignorant post to andybob really did it. Obviously you only read what you want. Had you ever read ANYTHING andybob has written about his expierences in his homeland you would NEVER have answered him the way you did :!: I'm also disappointed in your fellow country men that also have praised andybobs previous posts haven't stood up and told you what you wrote was WRONG.

Its because of Americans like you that your other fellow Americans have to wear Canadian Maple Leafs when they travel abroad :evil:

I know very little about Andybob, but I do know what he wrote a few hours ago!

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country,.

And if you ask me that is a pretty arrogant thing to say about my country. Especially when he is a guest in it!

Out of all the Countries in the world if he felt this way then he could have thrown a dart and picked any other ones he wanted.

Seems you are being a little one sided on your approach to my comment. Why do you not slap his hand for passing all the bad that goes on in the world off on the U.S.

In case you need to read it again

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country,.

Now please analyze this comment and tell me how as an American I am not suppose to get P***ed about it?

He took it personal first not me! I was just stating my opinion on immigration, I did not insult anyone, I did not call someone a wetback or anything derogatory. But you and Andybob took it too personal.

And I will stand by what I said, maybe I am not right but I can not be that far off to believe a person should have to be a citizen to come here and buy a handgun. You are acting like I am saying that 40 year old men should be able to marry 12 year old girls. It is not that outlandish of a political view to say you should be a citizen before you gain the right to bear arms in my country.

In case you did not read it above here is the arrogant, Victim attitude that andybob said to me!

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country,.

O by the way, I never said I did not want him here, I said I did not want him buying guns while he was here. BIG DIFFERENCE!

I suggest you chill out, go turn on the BBC and get some of that accurate and unbiased news you are so fond of.

Ps. If you want to know why my fellow Americans feel compelled to wear Canadian maple leafs when they travel It is because of victim opinions like Andybobs that spreads world wide that we are the cause of all bad in the world. Here is that opinion again, that makes many were Maple Leafs in case you missed it.

If you don't want people like me here Apluamnt, then stop your politicians interfering in our countries, then we wouldn't be forced into living in in your country,.