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Why do you buy cake?

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efb said:
Granted the cost per lb of protein may be cheaper for alfalfa, but wouldn't the cost of feeding it be higher ? One guy with a pick up feeder can cake ( we call it cube down here) a lot of cows in 3 or 4 hours. If you were trying to supplement 1000 cows spread over a lot of country with alfalfa, seems to me it would be a full time job for one man and what kind of equipment cost are involved ?
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EFB,
i agree with that,if a guys gotta keep going back and fourth into the pasture to feed a 1000 cows that could cost alot in labor and gas.But as soon as i was finished reading this thread ,i was thumbing through this AG Equipment catalog and found a Bale hay and straw spreader.Has a conveyor and what looks like some kind of spreader unit on the back mounted on a 78 white ten wheel truck,made by kirby mfg.Looks like you could feed quite a few head with this thing.Has anyone ever run such an animal?? :???: ,
 
Feeding alfalfa to a large number of cows is not a problem. Yes, you have to have a bale-bed to get the job done, but they will usually outlast several pickups. Alfalfa is the best hay in for unrolling, too. A good alfalfa bale that was baled right can take 1/4 to nearly 1/2 a mile to unroll. That's quite a bit of area for the cows to line up on both sides of and eat.

For those of you that have a tractor close to where the cows winter, there is a wonderful bale-unroller contraption they make for the three point. They are way less expensive than a conventional bale-bed for a pickup. If anyone is interested, I'll post a link on here.
 
In our area most guys who fertilize feed nothing but hay of course they lay on as much as they eat also..Myself I have fed wet distillars grain's the last 2 winter's but now since everyone has caught on the price went from Free to $34 per ton plus trucking.It may still sound cheap to some but it's 2/3rds moisture and labor intensive to feed to me it's not worth it.I will go back to planting corn for silage and feed hay.I don't use any fertilizer other than a little cow manure.When I first began running cows the ate a steady diet of swamp hay clear till grass.They were a little rough but bred back well and weaning weight's averaged 550#s.I know I made more money then.This winter I've really skimped my cows thru hay at $60 to $100 a bale for 8% protein is'nt worth it in my book.

From what I've seen on Alfalfa the little bit I've fed once they had some they would'nt eat my poor quality hay which I have lot's of.
 
Denny said:
In our area most guys who fertilize feed nothing but hay of course they lay on as much as they eat also..Myself I have fed wet distillars grain's the last 2 winter's but now since everyone has caught on the price went from Free to $34 per ton plus trucking.It may still sound cheap to some but it's 2/3rds moisture and labor intensive to feed to me it's not worth it.I will go back to planting corn for silage and feed hay.I don't use any fertilizer other than a little cow manure.When I first began running cows the ate a steady diet of swamp hay clear till grass.They were a little rough but bred back well and weaning weight's averaged 550#s.I know I made more money then.This winter I've really skimped my cows thru hay at $60 to $100 a bale for 8% protein is'nt worth it in my book.

From what I've seen on Alfalfa the little bit I've fed once they had some they would'nt eat my poor quality hay which I have lot's of.
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I know it's another expense but some have good results tub grinding and mixing poor have with grain and or alfalfa bales. some even add straw. Many ways to feed the chopped hay from under a hot wire to feeder panel and wagons to using a mixer wagon. I used to feed silage and chopped hay in a mixer wagon. I went back to a bale processor. What ever you can make make work for your situation.
 
This is getting a little off course for this thread but how many of you have used a bale wrapper for haylage. About the same cost as a processer and you have a machine that ensures good feed. I figure it pays me about $7.50 a bale after plastic cost for my labour when you factor in ONLY spoiled feed from weathering. I haven't taken the time to figure in what the difference for bad hay.
We roll them out, can't justify a machine that turns black hay into black hay and good hay into dust that blows off :D



My opinion
 
Yup,lotsa differnt methods to get protein/energy into cattle once the grasses go dormant and or you have a barn full of poor quality hay like I do,figgerin which protein source to utilize around here is pretty easy,the one that costs less.........this year that was liquid,cows did alright.grass is turning green and spring planting is in full swing.
good luck
 
In this area the reason we buy cake over alfalfa is it is very hard to find alfalfa that is put up right. To often alfalfa is not put up right and it's brown or another problem is if the leaves are beat off when put up and a person gets stems. Lack of protein there.

Cake is easier to handle and you know the product you are buying.
 
You cake feeders may need to check your options next season. No way will you get your cake as cheap as you did this season, even if you contract several semi loads. What does it cost you to cake? Your time, gas, and equipment add significantly to the overall cost. What about fines? ADM makes the best cake I have ever seen, with the fewest fines. Cake is a lot like creep, poor pellets make for a lot of fines, and fines are a waste of money, moreso if feeding on the ground.
 
loomixguy said:
You cake feeders may need to check your options next season. No way will you get your cake as cheap as you did this season, even if you contract several semi loads. What does it cost you to cake? Your time, gas, and equipment add significantly to the overall cost. What about fines? ADM makes the best cake I have ever seen, with the fewest fines. Cake is a lot like creep, poor pellets make for a lot of fines, and fines are a waste of money, moreso if feeding on the ground.
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Feeding alfalfa bales requires time, gas, and equipment as well. We usually supplement with cake, but occasionally use alfalfa in different scenarios and I can assure you in our situation it takes a lot more time to feed alfalfa than to run the cake truck around. Some of the cattle are wintered on hay meadows, but a lot of the cows are run in the hills where places with hard sod are not available to feed them--and it is sure a lot easier for them to pick cake out of the sand than alfalfa leaves. Another advantage for us when feeding cubes is that we feed just give them two-days worth every other day, which saves a lot of trips. We also get a mineral pack right in the cube to assure the cows mineral needs are being met. (we still offer free choice mineral)

The company we buy cake from bags most of the fines right off the back of the truck. We just feed them to odds and ends in the corrals, but alot of people make them take the fines back and subtract off their bill.

Both cake and alfalfa have their place, and everyone's operation is set up to work in a different way, but for us, 9 times out of 10 caking sure works better for us as we are usually short of time, short of help, and the cattle are spread out 20-30 miles.

Also, I might add just as a side note, we sample quite a bit of our native prairie hay, and this year for example, our protein levels ranged from 5 to 9%.

Just my opinion FWIW
 
As of today, COST for a 20% range cube, in bulk, before any freight is added, or discounts applied is almost $290/ton. That is at the ADM mill in Grand Island. ADM is back to offering 0% feeder finance this year. It might not be a bad idea to see your dealer and look into it.
 
Puts self out there and waits for someone to tell me how dumb I am.........with the raising costs of feed either cake or alfalfa I'd like to look into feeding more distillers. My father doesn't like to feed them on the ground and that's why he prefers cake. With the cost and the fact I know of an operation that does feed distillers on the ground I think it would be worth thinking about that option.

Anyone here do much with distillers?
 
Never said or thought anybody was dumb.........Just posted what dealer cost would be on a 20% AN range cube, before adding margin, freight, or applying any discounts. Sorry if you thought I insulted you.

Distillers "can" open up a whole other set of problems, though..........
 
loomixguy said:
Never said or thought anybody was dumb.........Just posted what dealer cost would be on a 20% AN range cube, before adding margin, freight, or applying any discounts. Sorry if you thought I insulted you.

Distillers "can" open up a whole other set of problems, though..........
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What kind of problem's with distiller's? I've heard how the cow's won't breedback,you'll get brainer's etc.etc.etc. I fed my cows 30#s of wet per head per day last winter was cheaper than hay the cows were fat and not one brainer.Now it's a year later and the cows are calveing faster than any year in the past.To me it's a feed company seeing a loss of money if they don't convince the farmer/rancher to buy their miracal in a bag or tank.If you want an honest answer ask someone who's done it.I've over fed wet distillars 3 times more than they reccommend with no ill effects.You can load a trailer full of it and park it right out with the cows they will eat until they are full and walk away.This was all done with wet distillars grain so the dry would be different.Plus the hay intake was cut in 1/2.Our local feed mill put on meeting/meal talking about feeding distiller's they had those old farmer's scared to death of the product.It worked on many of them as they keep selling lick barrel's.Feed salesman are like the government they only worry about their own bottom line.I've seen a good friend go broke on advice from his feedman.He was a dairy farmer.
 
loomixguy said:
Never said or thought anybody was dumb.........Just posted what dealer cost would be on a 20% AN range cube, before adding margin, freight, or applying any discounts. Sorry if you thought I insulted you.

Distillers "can" open up a whole other set of problems, though..........
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Loomixguy it was never directed out you I was just preparing myself for when or if anyone on the board thought it was a crazy or dumb idea.


Every producer has different opinions of what is the "right" thing to do. I think with the way that costs keep rising it's time to look outside the box for nutritional suppliments that still pack benefit but are more cost effective. I think in the next few calf crops we are all going to have to be watching every buck that we put in closer.
 
Denny said:
loomixguy said:
Never said or thought anybody was dumb.........Just posted what dealer cost would be on a 20% AN range cube, before adding margin, freight, or applying any discounts. Sorry if you thought I insulted you.

Distillers "can" open up a whole other set of problems, though..........
Click to expand...

What kind of problem's with distiller's? I've heard how the cow's won't breedback,you'll get brainer's etc.etc.etc. I fed my cows 30#s of wet per head per day last winter was cheaper than hay the cows were fat and not one brainer.Now it's a year later and the cows are calveing faster than any year in the past.To me it's a feed company seeing a loss of money if they don't convince the farmer/rancher to buy their miracal in a bag or tank.If you want an honest answer ask someone who's done it.I've over fed wet distillars 3 times more than they reccommend with no ill effects.You can load a trailer full of it and park it right out with the cows they will eat until they are full and walk away.This was all done with wet distillars grain so the dry would be different.Plus the hay intake was cut in 1/2.Our local feed mill put on meeting/meal talking about feeding distiller's they had those old farmer's scared to death of the product.It worked on many of them as they keep selling lick barrel's.Feed salesman are like the government they only worry about their own bottom line.I've seen a good friend go broke on advice from his feedman.He was a dairy farmer.
Click to expand...

The producer we know that fed distillers to his cows fed them right on the ground one scoop shovel at a time. His cows were in good shape and no ill effects that I ever heard of. These were dry ones.

Wet ones have water added? I've never been around them. I've heard of it. The guy who bought our steer calves was pleased to see we had been feeding them dry distillers he thought they would then go to eating wet ones easily.
 
Denny, I don't see how it is even possible to raise a corn silage crop worth anything without a heavy shot of fertilizer, especially nitrogen, you would especially have to add back P & K if you you're going to do it for more than one year, as silage and even hay removes a tremendous amount of fertilizer. You may not see it for a few years, but a lot of people's yields taper off slowly enough that they don't even realize how much they are losing in yield after five years. Just my opinion, maybe I've been suckered by the fertilizer companies, I know I'm funding them well.

BCR

Denny said:
In our area most guys who fertilize feed nothing but hay of course they lay on as much as they eat also..Myself I have fed wet distillars grain's the last 2 winter's but now since everyone has caught on the price went from Free to $34 per ton plus trucking.It may still sound cheap to some but it's 2/3rds moisture and labor intensive to feed to me it's not worth it.I will go back to planting corn for silage and feed hay.I don't use any fertilizer other than a little cow manure.When I first began running cows the ate a steady diet of swamp hay clear till grass.They were a little rough but bred back well and weaning weight's averaged 550#s.I know I made more money then.This winter I've really skimped my cows thru hay at $60 to $100 a bale for 8% protein is'nt worth it in my book.

From what I've seen on Alfalfa the little bit I've fed once they had some they would'nt eat my poor quality hay which I have lot's of.
Click to expand...
 
Winter your cows on the next years corn ground. Fertilizing just comes naturally for cows :wink: just don't stand too close behind them when the applicator is working :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
The wet distillar's is the same as dry before it's dried.Alot of bulk so the tend to fill up on it.

As far as growing corn the best corn I've ever raised was on new breaking we just plowed down a hayfield and planted corn.No starter or top dress just what mother nature provide's.Our corn ground was in field peas last year and we calve on it each spring they are there for 3 months 260 cows on 80 acres.It gets a fresh coat of manure every year.The peas were suppose to add 50#s of nitrogen per acre so we will see.
 

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