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rkaiser

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Searching for Perfect Angus Genetics

I was reading a couple of articles in a major beef publication this week about Angus cattle and was prompted to write a little piece myself. The last twenty or more years have seen a major shift in purebred genetics toward this breed which deserves praise and congratulations for taking the lead into the new realities of the cattle business in this country.

The articles I mention are somewhat polar in their views of Angus cattle however and reflect the variance in the breed that we all see at shows and sales around the country. One fellow speaks of a business approach to purebred sales using technology and economic strategy. He goes on to describe his choice of cattle to include characteristics like loose made - big ribbed - big boned - and lanky among others. A number of these terms could be perceived to be admirable to a British cattle breeder but could also be seen as following traits that we already have lots of in the Continental breeds in this country.

The other fellow focuses on hardiness and the low cost production side of our industry. He goes on to describe the size and efficiency of his cattle and goes so far as to say that his cattle handle a 30 per cent drop in body weight over the winter. He is talking about 350 pounds off a 1250 pound cow over the winter months. Now if this fellow is able to keep his conception rates at or near industry averages with this kind of management he deserves some credit but my goodness - what does this say for the genetic selection in his herd. Does he simply not put feed out for these animals? To me this sounds like a cow that cannot make it on a low quality ration if he is offering any volume of feed at all. The cows that would lose that kind of weight in my herd would be culled to make room for those who maintain on our low quality winter rations and carry that maintenance characteristic to their offspring.

I would say that this second fellow is more aware of where the industry is heading right now and is somewhat on the right track, but is a fair way off from calling his cattle the perfect Angus. In fact a fair way away from calling his cattle perfect in general. A goal that purebred breeders of all breeds hope to accomplish. It is nice to see different ideas in the Angus breed and awfully interesting to see almost all of the other purebred breeds looking at changes needed to keep ahead of the game. Adjustments are always being made within breeds and many breeders look to composite situations to make more drastic change.

I don't know how many times I have been told by ranchers touring our herd that they have driven countless miles looking for Angus genetics like we have in our own herd. But our herd is not Angus. We do have two purebred breeds that are as pure as Angus, as black as Angus, and I believe as good as Angus. But due to the simple fact that they are not Angus they do not receive near the attention that they deserve.

I am not going to even mention the breeds of cattle that we work with as this is not an advertisement as much as a wake up call to an industry hung up on putting all of it's eggs in one basket, and then trying to change those eggs to suit every customers needs.

Good luck all

Randy Kaiser
 
rkaiser said:
. He goes on to describe his choice of cattle to include characteristics like loose made - big ribbed - big boned - and lanky among others. A number of these terms could be perceived to be admirable to a British cattle breeder but could also be seen as following traits that we already have lots of in the Continental breeds in this country.



Randy Kaiser
I enjoyed your article Randy but if someone tries to sell me a tight made, tight ribbed bull they'll not have much luck. Some things are a constant. Volume is one of those constants for success running on fescue in Arkansas.
 
Randy I know the article you mentioned about the cows dropping 350 pounds over winter. He also said about using a "Terminal" cross . Well those cows that were developed to do so well on forage should be producing calves that do well on forage which I believe is also the "NEW" reality in the beef business.


Randy my Dad saw a Welsh Black bull at Ken Fraser of Six Mile Red Angus about 40 years ago. If he had done for Welsh Black what he did for Red Angus in this country you might have be raiseing one of the more "popular" breeds. Then what would you do? :wink:
 
I did not say that I do not like loose hided and big ribbed cattle red robin. But I did get your attention.....

Met Mr. Fraser a number of years back in Regina and could not agree with you more. I guess I would have to say that I don't know where I would be if the Welsh Balcks had made that movement due to what I agree is a great promotional man. Maybe bringing in the Irish Balck Cattle made by old Maurice Boney or trying to put some hair on the Devons???? :)
 
rkaiser said:
I did not say that I do not like loose hided and big ribbed cattle red robin. But I did get your attention.....

Met Mr. Fraser a number of years back in Regina and could not agree with you more. I guess I would have to say that I don't know where I would be if the Welsh Balcks had made that movement due to what I agree is a great promotional man. Maybe bringing in the Irish Balck Cattle made by old Maurice Boney or trying to put some hair on the Devons???? :)
I like the looks of your cattle Randy. They'll work for me. They're good cattle. Anyone could use them. You've done a great job. It doesn't have anything to do with what breed they are, it's the stockman eye that makes the stock.
 
If you'd give those "hairy beasties" a haircut once 'n a while- and wouldn't have to keep them in the natural air conditioning of the great far north-you'd be a rich man there kaiser :wink: :lol: :lol:
 
A terminal sire - just like a maternal sire can be created in many breeds as well Big Muddy. Hybrid vigor is good for growth and some may even say essential.

I don't know if their truly is a perfect Angus dam - but darn well bet that if you found her she would raise the ultimate carcass animal without out crossing her to another "terminal" breed. Nature seems to look after things like that when we concentrate on the maternal side.

Listen Oldtimer --- if you are not going to offer something more than a haircut to the conversation - you might spend your time better tracking down a stock trailer with Alberta plates bringing down some good Canadian genetics to some sane American Cattleman. :wink:
 
rkaiser said:
Listen Oldtimer --- if you are not going to offer something more than a haircut to the conversation - you might spend your time better tracking down a stock trailer with Alberta plates bringing down some good Canadian genetics to some sane American Cattleman. :wink:

Don't need to do any tracking to know that all Canuck stock trailers are heading south with plundered cattle they stole from north of the 49th... :wink:

As far as the perfect angus cow or for that matter the perfect cow for all-- it doesn't exist...Just the one that fits best into each persons individual setup, area, and operation....My idea of the closest definition of the perfect cow is the one that makes me the most money year after year.....

I was just talking with an angus breeder friend about bulls and cow types the other day-- and about individual breeders- and he was telling me that he saw some of those cattle raised in our country that do so well here on shortgrass, sagebrush and cactus, and never see a supplement tub or any grain- when he was thru Kentucky and the south he saw the same bloodlines of cattle that looked awful standing in knee deep grass.....That they almost starved to death on those fescue and fast growing pastures without being supplemented...
 
Oldtimer said:
My idea of the closest definition of the perfect cow is the one that makes me the most money year after year.....
Amen. And around my place, she might not be much to look at, either. A couple of my best cows from a profitability standpoint were small-framed, ugly, coarse, masculine little heifers. The only reason I saved those is because they weren't worth anything.

Those small-framed, ugly, coarse, masculine little heifers turned into small-framed, ugly, coarse, masculine little cows. Little cows that don't eat much and that calve on the front end of my calving season every year. They look like fat, dry heifers through their whole lactation. In fact, they really look more like steers. By weaning time, their calves are almost as big as they are.
 
Myself I like cows that are moderate framed with very good feet and udder's.My cows weigh between 950 on the small one's to 1400 on the LARGE one's with the vast majority in the 1100# range.Maternal instinct's are a must we calve around 50 heifers each spring and in the last 2 years I have'nt had any that did'nt claim their calves.I don't mind a Woofy cow they tend to keep the preditors at bay.

The cows that I like many won't but just as many will.

Cattle will be as diversefied as the country they come from and the rancher's who raise them.
 
I apologize for cutting in front of the shortgrass Good Sunday morning message and by the way thanks old boy.

But I need to use the technology of ranchers.net to post some picture for a continued discussion concerning this thread over on agriville. Maybe some day we will catch up to the Americans and be able to post pictures on the site ourselves.

Anywhoo.

The discussion is getting pretty lively about cows and their feed and what we put in front of them. So I thought I would post a few pics of a nice -25 degree Celsius December 2 Sunday morning for my friends at Agriville and all to see.

I've started off with a picture of a 10 year old cow who is still feeding her 700 pound bull calf, and the second picture is one of those 700 pound bull calves and one of his little sisters.

P1011355.jpg

P1011354.jpg



The next two pictures show some of the grass that we are offering them (mixed tame and native central Alberta grasses - alfalfa,brome, timothy, fescue, clover, orchard grass, quackgrass, etc.) (snow brushed away) and the bales that these cows will graze (three days worth - electric fenced off) once the snow gets too deep.

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Thats impressive Randy,no doubt,but you dont have the market conered on woolie cattle,have a few myself :D ....................good luck
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
HAY MAKER said:
Thats impressive Randy,no doubt,but you dont have the market conered on woolie cattle,have a few myself :D ....................good luck


GEEZ next your going to tell us your a long time Watusi breeder. :roll:

What would I do with a watusi ? barely have time for angus/Brangus and chasing round the country,cuttin into my computer time now :D much less chasing a novelty market.
good luck
 
I have a few questions.

First when do you begin calveing and at what age do you sell your bulls.

Another would be how much snow do you consider to much to graze through? I know if it's a 1" hard Ice type snow that would end it but just say an average fluffy snow.We grazed until today we got 8"s of snow and the cows quit working for a living the pasture that is left is pretty poor though.When the snow goes in the spring I will put our fall cows out on the leftover's.

Another do you have any semen that can be exported here or someone with some good bulls you would recommend to purchase some semen from.
 
HAY MAKER said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
HAY MAKER said:
Thats impressive Randy,no doubt,but you dont have the market conered on woolie cattle,have a few myself :D ....................good luck


GEEZ next your going to tell us your a long time Watusi breeder. :roll:

What would I do with a watusi ? barely have time for angus/Brangus and chasing round the country,cuttin into my computer time now :D much less chasing a novelty market.
good luck


Well lets see some picture of those Galloway you "Claim" to have. :?
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
HAY MAKER said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
GEEZ next your going to tell us your a long time Watusi breeder. :roll:

What would I do with a watusi ? barely have time for angus/Brangus and chasing round the country,cuttin into my computer time now :D much less chasing a novelty market.
good luck


Well lets see some picture of those Galloway you "Claim" to have. :?


I did'nt say I had Galloway's..........bought a couple woolie Limousines last year,I will find some more pictures tomorrow,late for a dominoe game :wink:
good luck
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