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Vigertone mineral- why better than others????

F

farmerD44

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
70
Location
Minnesota
I just tonight got back on this site for the first time since calving season and then planting season- and anyways i notice alot of praise of the Vigertone mineral. What is so much better about this than other kinds/brands??????

I am using Cenex/ Land o Lakes Pro Phos 12- which has %12 each of calcium, phosphorus, and salt. a good dose of copper and 22ppm selenium and %2 magnesium along with other vitamins/minerals. they eat it well most of the time free choice and right now am also mixing in some extra magnesium. i also feed selenium 90 trace mineral salt for more selenium along with organic iodide mixed in for foot rot.

Am i missing out on anything here????

Dan.
 
YEP.

Like Triple 12 is an old formula.
Like "what is a good dose of copper"?
Like what is the copper source?
Like you shouldn't have to add organic iodine.
Like why are you adding/mixing extra mag?
Like your mineral has grain by-products in it.
Like...oh shoot, I think you can do your own search here
and find out a lot of information.

Guess I'm just too tired to tackle your questions now. :shock:

Talk to ya later!!!!
 
Every Mineral is only as good as it works for the person talking about it.. If using mineal A gets you results that you are happy with, be it fast breed back, lack of health problems and all of those good things than good for you... I have been happy with Vigortone after the switch but I suppose I could have gone Moormons or Cargill or some of the other brands and maybe would have been happy too. Main difference with me so far has been I have enjoyed the folks that I have worked with that are affiliated with teh company... Some of the other companies... Well, it was a bit more faceless and I had to go through 3 or 4 people sometimes to get answers while with this one I have had the district rep stiop by three times and give me a call a few times to see if I had any questions... Can't say that the other companies ever did that.. Is some of what they did just good salesmanship? Sure.... but it is good salesmanship for a reason and I don't know why more companies don't do it, probably think the sales men at the local elevator can take care of it.... They can't always...
 
With my cows "They Eat It" they would'nt eat Brand X

The cattle are very healthy and rebred in a timely manner last year should be just as good this year.We had 7 opens from 205 cows last year..5 of those were 1st calf heifers raiseing calve's on a sandy pasture in a drought.

Never treated anything all last summer and have'nt this year other than 2 calves for pnemonia.I quit useing Scour shot's no pinkeye vaccines and no Fly Tags things are good.
 
Faster horses said:
YEP.

Like Triple 12 is an old formula.
Like "what is a good dose of copper"?
Like what is the copper source?
Like you shouldn't have to add organic iodine.
Like why are you adding/mixing extra mag?
Like your mineral has grain by-products in it.
Like...oh shoot, I think you can do your own search here
and find out a lot of information.

Guess I'm just too tired to tackle your questions now. :shock:

Talk to ya later!!!!
Click to expand...

the copper is 1300 ppm- which is a quite a bit more than the last mix we used to use. the copper source is basic copper chloride.

i am feeding the extra mag. now for precautionary reasons in the early grass season- we have never had a problem with this- but know others who have.

i beleive the small amount of grain by-product that is in it is for flavor and they lick it up nicely.

foot rot happens occasionally so give organic iodide.

last year we had 1 late bred cow and 1 open heifer out of 55 head. The heifer i beleive to be infertile as she never did get bred and was sold. as was the late bred cow and a couple of other old culls. so we had 51 head left this spring to calve and they all calved in 55 days. So i think our program is working pretty well as far as i can tell.

i am feeding the selenium salt because we did have a selenium deficiency a couple years ago due to weather the previous growing season- wet and rainy all year so low nutrients in the feed. so now we feed extra all the time for a precaution. selenium in the mineral is 22ppm

i am going to do some research but don't think i will be switching- unless i find something really eye opening.
 
Vigortone is not available here and I can't justify buying enough to get some...

That being said.....I have researched minerals and have seen a difference they make..They eliminate problems....

So, if my mineral works, you might ask, "Would you switch if Vigortone was available?".....I would try it for the following reasons....

First, I definetly need higher Selenium....The Vets sell a similar Mineral and it is 120 ppm Selenium...It is what they have found it takes and it is a Premix they recommend feeding straight and still giving Maximin supplement shots...WE are just way short of Selenium, and unless you have lived it and seen the difference, it is hard to describe...So the first order of business is it would have to hit my selenium needs...

Here are the two things that would make me give it a try even if I didn't believe that more mineral was digestable because of the sources...

It holds up to the rain..it does not Become an unusabl Block....That would save me a lot of money...

It is palatable...Most people claim consumption is steady throughout the year....I feed Mineral because My Cows need it and the things it prevents are time and money consuming.....I need them to keep at the mineral....I hear of people cutting mineral with salt to reduce consumption...Where we live, that is the lastthing need to do....

The third reason....I do believe the sources use may make the mineral more usable......On selenium, if my current mineral is 120ppm and only 60% is utilized, then it is like they are getting 72 ppm....If this mineral is 80% usable selenium, then I am getting them 96 ppm.....Believe me, where I live that is a huge difference....

*****DISCLAIMER**** I pulled the percent usable out of the air to make an example...i have no idea the real true values, just wanted to make a point.....*******

It is like feeding hay..At a point, you realize the value of good hay.....maybe you ca't feed it straight asit would take everyday, but you realize even though it is more expensive, you get a heck of a bang for your buck...

My thots,

PPRM
 
PPRM said:
The third reason....I do believe the sources use may make the mineral more usable......On selenium, if my current mineral is 120ppm and only 60% is utilized, then it is like they are getting 72 ppm....If this mineral is 80% usable selenium, then I am getting them 96 ppm.....Believe me, where I live that is a huge difference....
Click to expand...

I won't comment on vigortone, since I don't know much about it, however PPRM's comment is right on the money. A good quality mineral will use ingredients that are the most digestible for the animal. Sometimes this means using oxides, sometimes not. Quite a few years back I switched from a cheap, hard to digest mineral (from talking to specialist at the U of S, my cheap mineral was only about 60% digestible) to a slightly more expensive mineral that utilized minerals in their most digestible state (same U of S specialist felt I'd moved to around 90% digestible). Not only did my mineral consumption drop down, my herd health was visibly better. Overall, I saved money. I got 30% more mineral for a cost just under 20% greater.

As far as the mix goes, anyone who recommends a single mix for all areas of North America (or even within regions of a province or state) simply doesn't comprehend the differences in each area. Get your hay and grass analyzed each year so you have a starting point, then get your mineral tailored to your needs. Whats the point in paying for a mineral at double or triple the rate you need? Or worse, paying for a package mineral that doesn't have some of what you do need.

Rod
 
Just a couple of points to ponder:

Mineral is an exact science. It is best NOT to hand mix
anything with the mineral. We just cannot mix it good enough
so that a cow gets it all when she takes a lick. When we
mix something in it ourselves, we just took away all the
expensive equipment that mixes it at the plant and she might
get her mag requirement for a week and not get her trace
mineral requirement for the day.

Quality and quantity of forage dictates mineral consumption.
A good company will work with you, taking grass samples
if necessary. But usually, the same mineral works in many
areas and the area manager knows what works in each
particular area. Keep it simple.

The government dicatates how much selenium can be
in the mineral. Vigortone has the highest amount allowed
by law.

It is better to have more than one source of copper in a mineral.
Zinc helps make copper more available to the cow.
Vigortones Next Generation mineral takes this into account
and they raised the Zinc levels a bunch to help the copper
be more available.

Organic iodine for footrot is an old wives tale.
Zinc enhances the integrity of the foot, making the tissue
stronger and tougher. We haven't treated a case of footrot
for years. Our neighbor had epidemic hoofrot in 1994. He
was giving shots, boluses, and organic iodine. Nothing helped.
We went in and added pure zinc to the mineral. Got him through
the problem, he got on Vigortone and the amount of hoof rot
he has had the last 13 years you could count on one hand.

"Small amount of grain" you say. Hummmmmm, no way of knowing how
much grain is in the mix. If it gets hard when it gets wet, there
is too much grain in it. Adding grain is a way of cheapening it up.
12% phos causes the product to be bitter so as you mentioned,
the grain is added for flavoring. Let me ask you this, "why would
you buy a mineral that is 12% phos that has to have grain added
so they will eat it, when you could buy a lower phos product with
no grain?" Phos is the most expensive ingredient in mineral (and
Cargill owns most of the phos plants. They raised the price of the
phos and that cause the price of everyones mineral to go up.)
Cattle eat grams not percents. So if you have a 12% phos mineral
that they won't eat, how is that better than a 7% phos mineral that
they consume at the recommended levels? We have worked with
so many producers and we check what the cattle consume in a year's
time. Year in and year out, good years to bad, they consume right
at target for the year. Sometimes they eat a lot, sometimes not so
much, but just about always they hit the recommended levels when
figured by per head per year.

As PPRM has already mentioned, watch the ingredients.
Availablity is EVERYTHING. Sources are important.
Know the company you are working with. Are they working for
YOU or are they merely a FEED SALESMAN? And believe me,
there are more FEED SALESMEN out there than folks that are
working for your best interest.

To me, calving 55 cows in 55 days is awful. That averages
out to only one calf per day.

Our customers (some with big herds) get 85-90% of their calves
in the first heat cycle. 45 days is all they get in total. I'd sure
say that you have room to shorten up your calving
interval. How you do that is up to you.

There are some good mineral mixes out there. Cenex Land O
Lakes is NOT one.

Hope this helps!
 
Figure out how much calcium and phosphorus cows need. Then figure out how much they get from any mineral.

The vast majority of a cows needs of these 2 elements comes from what they eat. You cannot meet a cows needs of calcium or phosphorus simply with a mineral suppliment, any brand.
 
Faster horses said:
Just a couple of points to ponder:

Mineral is an exact science. It is best NOT to hand mix
anything with the mineral. We just cannot mix it good enough
so that a cow gets it all when she takes a lick. When we
mix something in it ourselves, we just took away all the
expensive equipment that mixes it at the plant and she might
get her mag requirement for a week and not get her trace
mineral requirement for the day.

Quality and quantity of forage dictates mineral consumption.
A good company will work with you, taking grass samples
if necessary. But usually, the same mineral works in many
areas and the area manager knows what works in each
particular area. Keep it simple.

The government dicatates how much selenium can be
in the mineral. Vigortone has the highest amount allowed
by law.

It is better to have more than one source of copper in a mineral.
Zinc helps make copper more available to the cow.
Vigortones Next Generation mineral takes this into account
and they raised the Zinc levels a bunch to help the copper
be more available.

Organic iodine for footrot is an old wives tale.
Zinc enhances the integrity of the foot, making the tissue
stronger and tougher. We haven't treated a case of footrot
for years. Our neighbor had epidemic hoofrot in 1994. He
was giving shots, boluses, and organic iodine. Nothing helped.
We went in and added pure zinc to the mineral. Got him through
the problem, he got on Vigortone and the amount of hoof rot
he has had the last 13 years you could count on one hand.

"Small amount of grain" you say. Hummmmmm, no way of knowing how
much grain is in the mix. If it gets hard when it gets wet, there
is too much grain in it. Adding grain is a way of cheapening it up.
12% phos causes the product to be bitter so as you mentioned,
the grain is added for flavoring. Let me ask you this, "why would
you buy a mineral that is 12% phos that has to have grain added
so they will eat it, when you could buy a lower phos product with
no grain?" Phos is the most expensive ingredient in mineral (and
Cargill owns most of the phos plants. They raised the price of the
phos and that cause the price of everyones mineral to go up.)
Cattle eat grams not percents. So if you have a 12% phos mineral
that they won't eat, how is that better than a 7% phos mineral that
they consume at the recommended levels? We have worked with
so many producers and we check what the cattle consume in a year's
time. Year in and year out, good years to bad, they consume right
at target for the year. Sometimes they eat a lot, sometimes not so
much, but just about always they hit the recommended levels when
figured by per head per year.

As PPRM has already mentioned, watch the ingredients.
Availablity is EVERYTHING. Sources are important.
Know the company you are working with. Are they working for
YOU or are they merely a FEED SALESMAN? And believe me,
there are more FEED SALESMEN out there than folks that are
working for your best interest.

To me, calving 55 cows in 55 days is awful. That averages
out to only one calf per day.

Our customers (some with big herds) get 85-90% of their calves
in the first heat cycle. 45 days is all they get in total. I'd sure
say that you have room to shorten up your calving
interval. How you do that is up to you.

There are some good mineral mixes out there. Cenex Land O
Lakes is NOT one.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Cargill didn't raise phos prices simply because they wanted to. True, Cargill does produce a substantial percentage of the phos, but not nearly enough to be able to set prices. Remember, phos is an important part of fertilizer. Demand is raising prices. Can you say 90 million acres of corn planted?
As for added grain and grain byproducts, every bag of Vigortone I've ever seen lists distillers grain on the tag. Regardless of what anyone may say, that's good, since it helps palatability. Palatability is obviously very important, since nutrient specifications don't matter if they don't readily consume it.
For foot rot, zinc is key. Pure zinc, I question. Organic zinc (complexed with methionine) is much more readily available and works great to make hoofs harder and healthier.
Vigortone is a good mineral, but certainly not the only one. There's a lot of Cargill Right Now Mineral sold and more every day, because cows eat it and it works.
 
Good post, rjk. And I have never said Cargill isn't good mineral.

Just for the record, I didn't mean we gave the neighbors cows pure zinc. We added pure zinc to the mineral to get more zinc into them, and it worked.

We also looked around and found what the problem was; it
was a water tank sitting on a square of concrete. The dirt/gravel
had sluffed away from the corners. As this was the only place
they could water, the cows crowded around it and pushed each
other resulting in their feet slipping off the concrete and bruising
the hoof tissue. The man didn't fix the problem until 3 years later;
but he didn't have any more problems after he got their feet
toughened up with our mineral.

I think these mineral discussions are always good. I get excellent
feedback from them. It is a learning session for a lot of people
who don't understand mineral at all; or would like to understand it
better.
 
Faster horses said:
Just a couple of points to ponder:

Mineral is an exact science. It is best NOT to hand mix
anything with the mineral. We just cannot mix it good enough
so that a cow gets it all when she takes a lick. When we
mix something in it ourselves, we just took away all the
expensive equipment that mixes it at the plant and she might
get her mag requirement for a week and not get her trace
mineral requirement for the day.

Quality and quantity of forage dictates mineral consumption.
A good company will work with you, taking grass samples
if necessary. But usually, the same mineral works in many
areas and the area manager knows what works in each
particular area. Keep it simple.

The government dicatates how much selenium can be
in the mineral. Vigortone has the highest amount allowed
by law.

It is better to have more than one source of copper in a mineral.
Zinc helps make copper more available to the cow.
Vigortones Next Generation mineral takes this into account
and they raised the Zinc levels a bunch to help the copper
be more available.

Organic iodine for footrot is an old wives tale.
Zinc enhances the integrity of the foot, making the tissue
stronger and tougher. We haven't treated a case of footrot
for years. Our neighbor had epidemic hoofrot in 1994. He
was giving shots, boluses, and organic iodine. Nothing helped.
We went in and added pure zinc to the mineral. Got him through
the problem, he got on Vigortone and the amount of hoof rot
he has had the last 13 years you could count on one hand.

"Small amount of grain" you say. Hummmmmm, no way of knowing how
much grain is in the mix. If it gets hard when it gets wet, there
is too much grain in it. Adding grain is a way of cheapening it up.
12% phos causes the product to be bitter so as you mentioned,
the grain is added for flavoring. Let me ask you this, "why would
you buy a mineral that is 12% phos that has to have grain added
so they will eat it, when you could buy a lower phos product with
no grain?" Phos is the most expensive ingredient in mineral (and
Cargill owns most of the phos plants. They raised the price of the
phos and that cause the price of everyones mineral to go up.)
Cattle eat grams not percents. So if you have a 12% phos mineral
that they won't eat, how is that better than a 7% phos mineral that
they consume at the recommended levels? We have worked with
so many producers and we check what the cattle consume in a year's
time. Year in and year out, good years to bad, they consume right
at target for the year. Sometimes they eat a lot, sometimes not so
much, but just about always they hit the recommended levels when
figured by per head per year.

As PPRM has already mentioned, watch the ingredients.
Availablity is EVERYTHING. Sources are important.
Know the company you are working with. Are they working for
YOU or are they merely a FEED SALESMAN? And believe me,
there are more FEED SALESMEN out there than folks that are
working for your best interest.

To me, calving 55 cows in 55 days is awful. That averages
out to only one calf per day.

Our customers (some with big herds) get 85-90% of their calves
in the first heat cycle. 45 days is all they get in total. I'd sure
say that you have room to shorten up your calving
interval. How you do that is up to you.

There are some good mineral mixes out there. Cenex Land O
Lakes is NOT one.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

We had the shortest calving interval of anyone i've talked to around this area. And most of them did calve in the first cycle. There were about 15 head that came in the next cycle. What's the big deal on that?? I don't want all my calves in one day. These were bred with one bull on 40 cows and the others Ai'ed. 5 of the Ai's came back. And why would i want my bull to have to breed 5 or 10 cows a day :???:

Do u have any scientific info that the organic iodide doesn't work- cuz i have read in quite a few articles in the past about using it for footrot. And it seems to help us- but there is more zinc in the trace mineral salt as well so with that and whats in the mineral maybe that is doin it.

and u kind of contradict yourself when u say u added pure zinc to the mineral- how is that any different than me adding magnesium :???:
 

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