Ranching and the future.

[BRG]

In another thread we got to talking about efficiency and "better doing cows." I stated that I think the future will force everyone to have better doing cows. It was then asked, "what is a better doing cow" To me "better doing" are cattle that are easy keeping year round, have natural muscle, length, and depth while putting it on fast and cheap in the feedlot. No matter what the size, breed or color is.

What does everyone else think the future holds? I think this is one of the most exciting times in the beef industry. I feel the higher corn markets are going to force everyone to have more efficient cattle. But to me more efficient isn't just smaller made cattle. To me they can be big or small, but they must be able to put it on in the feedlot easily and cheap while still doing it in the pasture without extra $. I feel that we (beef makers) have to have cattle that the buyers (feeders) want. Or they will go somewhere else to get it.[/quote]

 

[PureCountry]

I'm always talking a different market, so I see the future being producers establishing local markets for specialized beef. By specialized I mean special for your area. That might mean grass-fed, organic, corn-fed or whatever is popular. But I truly believe we should all be thinking of ourselves not as cowboys and cattlemen, but as food producers, and taking our product straight through to the consumer.

 

[Cal]

Does anyone think there's a correlation between carcass traits and being harder doing?

 

[Badlands]

Does anyone think there's a correlation between carcass traits and being harder doing?

NO!


Some of the early carcass founders were terrible for their daughters udders. Some of them were low capacity. Some of them were hard keeping. Some of them had too much milk. Some of them were too big. Some of them had bad feet and legs.

Collectively, there were some major problems in the carcass founders which resulted in tons of trouble with their female decendants.

But, carcass is NOT related to any of the traits genetically. We can select through the carcass bottleneck. Either that, or look through the older, proven bulls and use them with selection withing those lines for better carcass, which is what I am trying to accomplish with my start-up herd.

If we select through the bottleneck, we end up with better trash, in my opinion. If we start over and improve the old lines for carcass, we end up with a more viable commodity.

Genetically, since the carcass traits are more highly heritable than the "female traits", it makes much more sense to discard the crap we have and start over. Once you lost the "female traits", they are hard to recover, but carcass can be selected for from the older lines easier since they are more highly heritable.

Badlands

 

[Badlands]

I would suggest that we already have tools at our disposal to capture about 75% of the variation in efficiency that we will ever get for the commercial producer.

The final 25% should be worked on by the seedstock guys, but the commercial producer is not helpless to improve his/her situation.

Badlands

 

[Andy]

Badlands hit the nail on the head. There are carcass bulls out there that will produce easy doing moderate cows and there are ones that will produce big raw boned horses that cant survive with out grain. You just have to select for the genetics that combine all the traits you need to improve and don't hurt you anywhere else.
BRG I think you are right as well. The cheapest and fastest gaining cattle that we feed only have one thing in common, that is they have alot of capacity other than that they are out of different breeds and have a range of frame scores. Ranches need to keep cows that work for us and use bulls that will help the calves work in the feedlot.

 

[RobertMac]

What is carcass quality?

I think most would say a high-choice or prime grading loin. Marbling is what gets you those grades and marbling is one of the energy reserves that a cow needs to get through the winter. So wouldn't cows that maintain their condition best for a given set of condition be the ones most likely to produce calves that grade well?

So, wouldn't the genetics the commercial man needs for "better doing cows" be the same genetics needed for quality carcasses?

 

[BRG]

RB,

There is more to it than just marbling, if you have the best marbling animal ever but have and 1300lbs steer with only a 9 inch REA, then you are in trouble too. Also as much as we all love backfat, which is what keeps a cow in shape, if you have alot of that, but a small REA, you are also in trouble.

Cal,

As far a does carcass quality go along with poor doing animals. Well, you do see alot of dairy looking animals that are suppose to be higher marbling, but I think the only reason why this is, is because the seedstock leaders have been single trait selecting again. When that happens, we all know we hurt ourselves way mosre than helping. So I don't think they go hand and hand, but we now have to be careful, because alot of the "carcass bulls" are harder keepers.

 

[Jason]

Cows fat deposits are from maturity. Carcass fat for grade can't be from that as we don't sell 3-5 year old steers for beef.

Grade fat is not something that can be assessed from the cowherd without age specific ultrasound or actual carcass evaluation.

 

[PureCountry]

Geez BRG, what happened to your thread on the future of the business? :lol:

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

<chuckle> I'll pull it back inline Pure.

I think the future will see the elimination of Can-Am commodity beef producers. As South America and China begin ramping up production to monstrous levels, the major packing firms will get our respective governments to drop tariff protection and our local commodity beef producers will find themselves priced out of competition.

That means the smart Can-Am commercial producers will begin looking to specialty or niche markets that the mass produced grass fed cheap beef can't match. The only other place that money will be made in the future is in purebred production. Purebred producers had better start paying close attention to carcass qualities and only selecting their top end stuff now.

Rod

 

[RobertMac]

BRG, wouldn't the flip side also be true?
How about a different definition for quality beef...Quality Beef is the beef that a satisfied customer eats!!! Isn't that our real goal...whether it be prime corn/barley fed, grassfed, organic, or lean beef?

Jason, never seen any mature skinny cows??? :wink: :lol:
Wouldn't it stand to reason that a cow that lays down fat easily would produce a steer that would do the same? Isn't that genetics??????

Rod, if there aren't any Can-Am commercial producers, why would we need purebred producers??? :wink: :lol:

I agree that the global packers are going to force Can-Am live prices as low as they can, but Can-Am production can't simply disappear...remember the population is growing and as more people earn more money, we can talk more of them into eating the most nutritious food, BEEF!!!!

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Rod, if there aren't any Can-Am commercial producers, why would we need purebred producers??? :wink: :lol:

I agree that the global packers are going to force Can-Am live prices as low as they can, but Can-Am production can't simply disappear...remember the population is growing and as more people earn more money, we can talk more of them into eating the most nutritious food, BEEF!!!!

But RM, where in my post did I say commercial cattle producers would completely disappear? I said that all that would be left are those who could find a niche to service. I think we'll see an expansion of niche areas in the future as people get more selective of what they eat. I also believe we'll have opportunities in Europe to sell a high end, flavorful product. While cattle production may be scaled down, its certainly not going to disappear and you'll need purebred producers to service that market. And I also believe we'll see more overseas market for our purebreds.

Rod

 

[katrina]

Cal, On your question I say Yes....... 036 New Design comes to mind....
Or a 933 New Trend.......

I think it's really exciting to see people like Robert Mac and PPRM and others to find a niche in the market... Way to go guys!!! Also it's fun to see quality sell at a higher price than just a certain weight no matter the quality... I think that is where higher feed prices are helping out... Next week we are selling some fats so I'll be able to tell you more then on our exsperiance...

 

[BRG]

RM,

You are correct, I didn't mean to leave out quality carcasses. :shock: Along with good doing cattle I do think that raising cattle that grade choice or higher with no yield grade 4's or more is extremely important. I really think all commercial ranchers should get some sort of history on their calves as well. We have been building a history for our customers now for the last 4 years. We have seen this increase their price when they sell. The feeders that we have been buying for, ask nearly every time we tell them about a set of calves. If we don't know how they feed and grade, how can we improve them???

 

[Soapweed]

Personally, I think entirely too much emphasis is put on the cattle "numbers" game and fads of the moment. It is always fun to look back through cattle magazines to see what the trend of the time was in years gone by. Some of those belt-buckle high breeding bulls brought big bucks at the time. They influenced many generations of cattle. If those same bulls were brought into a sale ring today, they would sell by the pound, and they wouldn't weigh very many pounds.

My theory is to stay with moderate middle of the road cattle. Don't stray too far from just a functional cow that gives you a live calf every year and breeds back to have a calf again the next year. Don't worry too much about a late calver, because there is a good chance she will have a fairly early calf the next year. Don't worry too much if you happen to get a bad steak at a restaurant, and say, "I'll never go back to that place again." Try it at least one more time, give the establishment the benefit of the doubt, and your next eating experience might be very pleasurable. Heck, you might even fall in love with the new waitress on the job. Had you not gone back, this could never have happened. :wink:

Sometimes we all worry too much about trends, fads, and "scientificicity" (if that is even a word :???: ). We should try to do the best we can with what we have, but there is such a thing as going overboard in anything. Sometimes the end results just don't matter all that much in the general scheme of things.

 

[Jason]

Quit it Soap, your being too reasonable for the internet fourm :wink:

I see the future being fewer larger herds. It is happening already. There is a limit as to how much beef from fewer cows we can produce, I think that ship has sailed.

To increase beef supplies for a growing population will take more cows. There is a limit to how many cows we can fit, areas like Mt. and Saskatchewan that have limited populations will likely see the greatest numbers growth. Freight costs will be an issue for that though.


Robert, skinny old cows vs fat old cows... can you say sore feet, dry grass, large calf, etc... fat at slaughter age and mature fat cover are not related. An old skinny cow can have the genetics to raise very fat slaughter calves. An old fat cow can raise calves that won't marble.

If the cow works keep her, if she doesn't ship her. If you are more concerned with a cows look rather than her production....

The future is bright for those that will embrace change others will always be negative.

 

[Anonymous]

To increase beef supplies for a growing population will take more cows. There is a limit to how many cows we can fit, areas like Mt. and Saskatchewan that have limited populations will likely see the greatest numbers growth. Freight costs will be an issue for that though.


.

Montana currently is and I believe will continue going the other way--more people moving in to live on their 40 acre ranchettes and have a few horses- lot of land going to hunting and wildlife interests and conservation groups...Some of the large ranches being sold to rich investors- at prices that you could never pay for with Agriculture production...
One of the more profitable ranch ventures now is guiding & outfitting-- or even just leasing out the land (hunting rights) to outfitters....

 

[RobertMac]

Rod, the :wink: and :lol: means a joke...as usual, I'm in general agreement with you. S.A. beef is factored into the global market now...my point is that there isn't enough room for expansion to produce enough beef to replace Can-Am production. But certainly the global food companies are going to do what they can to reduce what they have to pay for our cattle.

BRG, I agree. Nolan Ryan's program gives the producer information on every calf...feed lot performance to carcass quality. Someone that is doing things right like Soapweed can take this info and further refine his herd to be able to produce a set of calves that hang a very consistent set of carcasses with history. That is a very valuable herd...why give that value away to commodity packers. Team up with a branded program that will pay for those carcasses.

"Scientificicity"__that's in the Dictionary of Cowboy Logic...isn't it!!!

...fat at slaughter age and mature fat cover are not related.

Jason, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Genetics!?!? :???:

 

[Andy]

Cal, On your question I say Yes....... 036 New Design comes to mind....
Or a 933 New Trend.......

I think it's really exciting to see people like Robert Mac and PPRM and others to find a niche in the market... Way to go guys!!! Also it's fun to see quality sell at a higher price than just a certain weight no matter the quality... I think that is where higher feed prices are helping out... Next week we are selling some fats so I'll be able to tell you more then on our exsperiance...

Are you selling the fats on the grid or just through the ring at the salebarn?