Mineral question

[Jason]

Trace minerals are the ones cows don't, or can't find as readilly.

Selenium is our big one, it has boosted the immune system of our herd so much it is unbelievable.

The only mineral I feed is a trace mineralized salt.

Anyone that suppliments grain or oat hay(wheat hay etc) cake or cubes shouldn't need phos in the mineral.

 

[PPRM]

Seems simple, Phosphorous is bitter and cattle tend to walk away from mineral when they have enuff phosphorous. Yet, that doesn't mean they have enough Copper, Zinc or Selenium. A few minerals in the bag affect palatability, yet that can determine the consumption of the ones they are lacking.....Yet everyone seems to like the "Sound Good Philosphy" of cows eating as they need. Selenium is hugely important where I live, so I can't go by that....

Just my thots,

PPRM

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Yet, that doesn't mean they have enough Copper, Zinc or Selenium.

This is why its so important to get a hay analysis done each year, then tailor your mineral program. I don't know about other areas, but I see some pretty radical swings in some minerals from year to year, yet we're _always_ short of selenium and VitE up here, so you have to supplement. Hay analyses are cheap ($35 per sample), and it stops you from playing a guessing game.

Rod

 

[PPRM]

Yet, that doesn't mean they have enough Copper, Zinc or Selenium.

This is why its so important to get a hay analysis done each year, then tailor your mineral program. I don't know about other areas, but I see some pretty radical swings in some minerals from year to year, yet we're _always_ short of selenium and VitE up here, so you have to supplement. Hay analyses are cheap ($35 per sample), and it stops you from playing a guessing game.

Rod

I think that is a good idea....We consistently buy Premix (120 ppm Selenium) and feed it straight to get that up...And we still give Selenium shots....I actually use Multimin for the Selenium shots to get the Copper and Zinc Up...

I wish Vigortone had a dealer around here, i'd like to use thier resources and never look back,

PPRm

 

[Faster horses]

Thanks PPRM. I wish the same for you.

If you look back, my first suggestion was too much phos in the mineral could make it bitter. I wish feeding mineral was so simple that they would eat what they needed when they needed it. Does not work that way, however. Remember the old TSC (I think that was the name) they had special feeders that you put out and the traces were divided into compartments. Great idea, only it didn't work. The cattle ate what tasted good or what was on the outside compartments and left the rest.

So that theory has already been tried.

Don't add salt to mineral to get cattle to eat it. Add salt if they eat too
much and then we don't recommend putting it in the mineral, we
recommend putting loose salt in another feeder besides the mineral.

If Shelly's cattle have not had mineral all summer, they should be
going after what she put out. It's my thought it either does not smell
good or does not taste good. Not all mineral is equal, and that's a
fact. Someone suggested she put some soybean meal in with it, I
guess if I was bound and determined that they eat this kind of mineral,
then that's what I would do.

OT, if your cows didn't eat 32SPL (now 3V2S) this summer, then you
most likely have some salt in your pastures. Try 3V4 next summer.
It only contains 5-6% salt. It's a little cheaper and is designed for areas
where consumption is a problem or for producers who like to feed
salt with their mineral.

If you don't get the required amounts in the cattle, 3-4 oz per head
per day, they won't die, but you won't see the results you will see
when cattle eat mineral year round. Those results are: Better conception rate, better herd health overall and added weaning weight. A quality
mineral more than pays for itself. We are all getting older and the less we have to doctor cattle, the better. And I'm telling you, there is a lot
less doctoring that goes on in this area because there are so many that
are on our year-round program. Sure, it costs to feed mineral, but it
has a great return on investment.

Hope this helps!!!!!!

 

[katrina]

Bravo!!! Faster Horses, well written........

 

[Shelly]

Ok, FH, thanks to 3words (because he also is using the same minerals as us), there is 16% phos in that bag of minerals. Does that help you at all? Now, when I put the minerals out, they sure smelled sweet to me, cow candy I call it. As for feed tests, we have had some done. What am I looking for on them in the breakdown of the nutrients in it?

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Call your local feed store and tell them your analysis results. They should be able to tailor your program from there. Your animals needs vary with temperature, trimester of pregnancy, etc etc. I don't know how close you are to Tisdale, but Evenson at the Tisdale vet clinic custom tailors programs, so you may want to call him up. He does it for free for those who buy mineral from him, so he may want to charge a bit for someone who isn't going to buy from him.

There is also a program called Cowbytes that is very handy for this kind of analysis. The free version only allows for 1 feed and 1 mineral to be entered at once, but it'll help.

Rod

 

[Faster horses]

No wonder they won't eat it. 16% is a lot of phos and is not needed.

BTW, we get forage analysis done on our hay, but not for mineral purposes. In my opinion, this is being made wayyyyyy too complicated.

The ratio between cal and phos on your mineral is important.
You should feed a 2-1, 3-1 or even 4-1 cal to phos mineral.
Our 3V products (former 32S or 32S Plus Products) are close
2-1 cal to phos, with phos being at 7%.

It does not matter the % of phos if
the cows aren't eating the mineral. 16% phos isn't doing them
a bit of good if they aren't eating it, so why pay for that
much phos? Phos is the most expensive ingredient in mineral.
Cattle eat grams, not percents so it would be better for you and
the cows to find something with lower amounts of phos.
I have no idea why anyone would sell a 16% phos mineral.
It's wayyy too bitter AND the calcium ratio will be off, I am
betting.

Hope this helps. I'd say you need to get a lower phos mineral
so you can get the traces in the cattle.

Good luck!!!

 

[rjk]

Ok, FH, thanks to 3words (because he also is using the same minerals as us), there is 16% phos in that bag of minerals. Does that help you at all? Now, when I put the minerals out, they sure smelled sweet to me, cow candy I call it. As for feed tests, we have had some done. What am I looking for on them in the breakdown of the nutrients in it?

16% is an awful lot of phos and still have good consumption. I would bet this is part (maybe most?) of the consumption problem. If you're feeding any additional supplements, that will also tend to depress mineral intake. Combine feeding a protein supplement with a really high phos in the mineral and you'll often see low/no consumption.

Also, don't buy into "they'll eat it if they need it" theory. There's not a cow alive that has nutritional wisdom to know what they should eat to meet their requirements. Heck, people can't even do that, usually.

There can be a big difference in palatability from one brand to another. There's been alot said about Vigortone, but I have alot of experience with Right Now and have great results with consumption.