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Its been a long time, and I have a question for you bull buy

D

diesel

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
38
Location
northwestern S.D.
It has been a long time since I have posted anything. Keep on reading the posts, but to busy, or maybe to lazy to post, Anyways here is the Question I am interesed in asking. I raise gelbvieh and Balancer bulls , and I was wondering what you look for in a bull when you go to purchase a new bull. E.P.D.s, calving ease, muscling, length, how the bull was raised, what he was feed after weaning to sale , sires, dam, what he looks like, price, the person who raised the bull. which do you feel are the stronge points when selecting the bull?
 
I look at the program and the environment he comes from. We're an all-grass beef program, so animals have to be able to adapt to our no-grain system. If they already come from one similar to ours, it's a plus.

As for structure, 70% body, 30% leg for starters. Easy fleshing, good feet, masculine, and quiet. Carcass numbers are very important to me. I want high yield, like 65% or more, ribeyes over 1.2 per cwt, and I want him to come from a proven cow that's in her teens and still going strong.
 
The older we get the higher on the list of qualities disposition is. Life's too short to live with flighty or cranky bulls, and then their flighty and cranky daughters.

It wouldn't matter if the bull was a world champion with epd's to only dream about.... if he shook his head at either one of us, he'd be on the truck.
 
Good timing, I'm shopping for Balancer bulls :D .

If they can live at elevation, I like to look at the cowherd next. Ideally I'd like to see the cows right after weaning to assess their udders. One time we purchased bulls from a well-known outfit, only to discover the daughters were the most awful uddered females we'd ever had. A few years later I was watching a video sale, and some pairs were on, with the same crappy bags, and they belonged to those people. Yep, I didn't even have to read a name on the screen to tell who consigned those calves!

Next I look at overall management... how are these cattle fed (cow management and how are bulls developed)? How many calving seasons do they have... if more than one, why?

If the female side checks out, I then look through the bulls, and pick ones out by phenotype. Next I eliminate any flighty ones, or those without calving ease. In a perfect world, then I would go check out mothers/sisters to those bulls I liked :D .
 
I strongly agree with you. Disposition is at the top of my bulls criteria, right behind is milk, which in turn means the milking ability and what kind of uddder the cow has, for no milk the poor calf has to eat his wheaties pretty dry. The cows in my heard will last a good 12 to 15 years. 18 years is the oldest cow I have had. The heifers are looked at pretty hard the first year they calve, If they bring a furball in at weaning with no reason for it, she gets to see the pretty lights of the salebarn, same goes for the cows. One area that I really look hard at is my replacement heifers. My thoughts are that anyone can raise steer calves and heifers, but at my place, the heifers must be top of the line, or how else can they go into my herd and try to sell people bulls. Just because a animal has the ability to breed doesnt mean they get that right. I have witnessed bull buyers purchaseing low dollar bulls and a couple of years latter were not happy, because the calves were getting lighter and lighter. You dont have to buy the most expensive bull,but the I believe the cheap bulls are just that. anyways, these are some of my thoughts on my critters, love to have you respond more to see what your thoughts involve.
 
My hubby and I have different methods..he goes for disposition, the way their handled,fed,enviroment, and of course the way they're put together plus other things...me...I pick the one's with the pretty eyes..lol and usually we pick the same bulls! lol
 
Jassy said:
My hubby and I have different methods..he goes for disposition, the way their handled,fed,enviroment, and of course the way they're put together plus other things...me...I pick the one's with the pretty eyes..lol and usually we pick the same bulls! lol
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Worked for ya when you picked your husband. :D :D
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Jassy said:
My hubby and I have different methods..he goes for disposition, the way their handled,fed,enviroment, and of course the way they're put together plus other things...me...I pick the one's with the pretty eyes..lol and usually we pick the same bulls! lol
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Worked for ya when you picked your husband. :D :D
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How do you know...he always has sunglasses on? :wink:
 
I get in the bull delima every year. I have been discussing this topic with some freinds . Some of the issues we brought up are. Are we going to be able to sell the bulls calves for a good price or will they have good weights. We really think the kind of year helps alot. The issue here is not so much the price we get as it is not much spread anymore.Its the cost of getting them to the weight and the management factors in the cow herd. Those things add up also. This fall bull buyers are overlooking quality in there bulls. Trying to get another year outof their bull etc. For some unknown reason several are buying sale barn bulls this fall. Must be the economy I guess.
What we try to not get caught up in the finding a true cattle breeder vs a hired cattle marketer that disguises themselves as a breeder.
Yes Dispostion is getting to be top on the list. But generally the bigger faster genetics are not very gentle or easy to keep.
One thing we have learned watch out for flash pan breeds and really watch breeder ads on what they are doing. Several get togther and breed some of the same bulls hoping something will get hot. Others every single year have the best bulls and the new bloodlines etc. That is marketing bulls. We also have a marketer (dba a breeder) that claims to buy all the calves from there bulls. However the feedlot they own is just big enought for there own cattle. When farmers deliver the cattle to there feedlot several hundred miles away. The operation only buys the ones they want and sends the others home
 
I start from the ground up-the best genetics in the world are no good if the bull can't deliver them to the cows or if he's daghters are bad footed. You usually get an idea of disposition while the foot and leg check is going on-next is fertility. As far as EPD's I'm more worried about too much performance than not enough. But before I go to a yard to even start with this stuff-the cowherd has got to be run at least as tough as ours is. My list of A'I bulls and breeders isn't very long for sure.
 
I look for a seedstock producer who runs cattle in a simular climate and range conditions that I do. I look for a trusted and reputable producer. Then I look at genetics, pedigree and conformation. I like a bull with good legs and decent bone without being too coarse. The old saying about bulls is guts,butts and nuts. I like a level topline and depth throughout. I don't like a milk EPD over 18 or so and I stay away from W and Y numbers over 50 and 100 respectively. I look for maternal traits and feel that they will make good heifers and steers. That is what works in my neck of the woods. My 2 cents for what it's worth. :wink:
 
We also like to see the mother, if that's possible. If she's not a cow we'd like to own, then we don't want her son. If she's an old cow, even better, because in a well managed herd, if a cow gets to "be" an old cow, she's obviously earned her way.
 
We are in Florida and if a bull can't make it here he can't make it anywhere. I am tired of feeding bulls. Don't make them so dependent on feed. These boys need to do what they were bought to do and not need a hand to feed them every day. They have a job and they need to do it. Period.
 
Kato said:
We also like to see the mother, if that's possible. If she's not a cow we'd like to own, then we don't want her son. If she's an old cow, even better, because in a well managed herd, if a cow gets to "be" an old cow, she's obviously earned her way.
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I try to use these breed ped searches when looking for a bull on his dam side.
 
We try to buy from breeders. High calibre people is always the best insurance policy you can get. As well, we try to only deal with people who are serious about the beef business. This is not always equated by cow numbers...

We don't buy unless there are EPD and ultrasound. That narrows the Canadian list down in a hurry. We have an EPD profile and ultrasound profile we are looking for, definitely not the biggest/best, but through experience what fits very closely to what we do. Good CE, low BW, moderate WW and YW, milk in the teens. EPD work better than anything else we have found as long as you know what you are trying to do.
We always try to get a little bit of extra fat/marbling on our maternal bulls and a little more yield on our terminal ones.
Then we go to look at the reduced list of bulls, starting at the ground up. Feet/legs, nuts, guts, head, overall package. We also like to see dams.
There are some good numbered bulls that are poor lookers and fall off the table, but the risk for us lies in getting a good looking bull that doesn't carry the genetics to move us ahead. That's why we use EPD first and phenotype second.
 
Justin said:
i think one of the best things you can do when buying a bull is to, if possible, go look at his momma :!: IMO
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You betcha! Birth weight is also an important aspect to me. I think it's a big mistake to look at a birth weight by itself and make a judgment. The number really doesn't mean anything to me until I know how it compares to the rest his siblings and really the whole calf crop. Take the moderate birth-weight no matter what it is...... IMHO
 

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