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Cattlemen concerned about training flights

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Please dont say trains will upset cattle.....
Dalhart has over 100 trains a day going 50-80mh with whistles blowing.
I have yet to see one of the cows I deal with react to a train.I work with dairy cattle and I have heard one would die if you choked it down on a rope.
As for fire I am more worried about a person smoking or lightning
causing a grass fire than a plane of any kind.
These young people have to learn and learn in a place they are safe. I dont want their training missons to be public.

Stay safe BC and prayers to you family.
 
You know the noise deal goes something like this here..........cattle can get desensitized to almost any noise,liken it to deer around here that are born on the side of the highways,as soon as they are born the first thing they here is traffic and lots of it,as they age they are accustomed to it,no doubt cattle do the same,given the same environment ,problem is not all cattle are born under a flight path,and the flights are usually varying in nature,like I said I consider it necessary for the good of the country...........good luck
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Haymaker says "PS and yes I have worked in,on,and around just about every military base in Texas,met more than one base commandeer"



Haymaker did you sell hay for the army mules in WW1?

:roll: :lol:


No but I did invite a few of them to come out and patch fence.
good luck

PS besides what does an old dumb canuckle head like you know about war,I thought you canuckleheads were peace lovers,and flower huggers :D
 
I love and support our troops. And i work my day job at an Army base. But i have had a couple of experiences when cows were spooked on account of low flying military aircraft, miles away from any training range. I agree that the flyboys need to be sharp and ready to go when they go into harm's way. But i also know that they have massive areas set aside to fly over. So my comments are not about stopping training, but about why they stray away from the ranges? And i think some folks post stuff as if thier opinion is the only opinion. I was merely providing another angle on the story. That doesn't make me unpatriotic or against the troops. If ya think that you are dead wrong!
 
HAY MAKER said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Haymaker says "PS and yes I have worked in,on,and around just about every military base in Texas,met more than one base commandeer"



Haymaker did you sell hay for the army mules in WW1?

:roll: :lol:


No but I did invite a few of them to come out and patch fence.
good luck

PS besides what does an old dumb canuckle head like you know about war,I thought you canuckleheads were peace lovers,and flower huggers :D



We might be peace loving Haymaker but we have handled ourselves pretty well. We were in WW2 long before the USA and I think I remember the White house being burned by Canadians during a little skirmish back a few years.
Heck if Bowie and Crockett had half a dozen Saskatchewan farm boys they would have sent those Mexicans packing. :wink: :lol:
 
August 1, 2008 Phone: 406-672-8969; e-mail: [email protected]



CEO Attends Meeting on U.S. Air Force Plans to Expand Powder River Training Complex;

Petition Says Action Would Constitute a Taking of Private Property



Billings, Mont. – Well over 100 cattle producers and concerned citizens attended a meeting this week in Miles City, Mont., to learn about the U.S. Air Force's (USAF's) plan to triple the size of the Powder River Training Complex (PRTC). R-CALF USA CEO Bill Bullard participated in the meeting and encouraged producers to exercise their right to influence the USAF's plans. R-CALF USA Member Pat Goggins, who owns several large ranches in the PRTC area, as well as the Public Auction Yards in Billings and Billings Livestock Commission, organized the meeting. Maj. Doug Bodine, a USAF pilot stationed at Ellsworth Air Force Base presented plans for the PRTC expansion and answered questions from the audience. The proposed expansion affects certain areas of Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming.



John Goggins, general manager of Western Livestock Reporter, distributed a petition against the plan that was signed by many in attendance. The petition asserts that the PRTC expansion plan would constitute a taking of private property and should not be pursued.



"After hearing from producers about their concerns on how this expansion would affect their cattle operations, R-CALF believes the U.S. Air Force should more thoroughly explore other available training options, rather than focus on an area that supports such a large proportion of full-time cattle operations," Bullard said. "R-CALF does understand the importance of maintaining a strong and well-trained military, but there are other available options with which to achieve that goal without adversely affecting the prime grazing lands in this region. These options include greater use of existing training sites in Idaho and Utah."



Bodine explained that the USAF preferred to expand the PRTC rather than to continue using training areas in Idaho and Utah because of its closer proximity to Ellsworth Air Force Base and because Ellsworth aircraft are accorded a lower priority in those regions than are aircraft from other USAF bases. He also said the existing PRTC does not allow aircraft to deploy chaff or flares and that high-speed flight capability is limited. According to Bodine, the USAF would use the expanded training area Mondays through Fridays from 8:00 a.m. to midnight.



Concerns raised at the meeting included the impact of sonic booms on livestock production, greater potential for fires caused by the deployment of flares, potential devaluation of property values and the potential disruption of emergency air ambulances and fire-fighting aircraft.



According to a May 29, 2008, notice published in the Federal Register by the Department of the Air Force, concerned citizens may send written comments about this proposed action – postmarked no later than Aug. 4 – to:

Ms. Linda DeVine

HQ ACC/A7PP

129 Andrews St., Room 317

Langley AFB, VA 23665-2769



The USAF has held 'scoping' meetings across Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming, and in approximately 10 months, will release a draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) to the public. At that time, concerned citizens will have 60 days to furnish additional comments before the final EIS draft is written.



DeVine said persons who were unable to attend Monday night's meeting can access information about the proposed PRTC expansion at: http://www.ellsworth.af.mil. The link to the PRTC information is on the right hand side of the page and will be updated as additional materials are produced, she said.



Bullard encouraged every resident to exercise their right to influence the USAF's decision in this matter by submitting a written letter postmarked on or before Aug. 4 that expresses their comments or concerns about this proposed expansion.



Montana counties included in the proposed PRTC expansion plan are: Big Horn, Carter, Custer, Fallon, Powder River, Rosebud, Treasure and Yellowstone, along with the Crow Reservation and the Northern Cheyenne Reservation.



North Dakota counties included in the proposed PRTC expansion plan are: Adams, Billings, Bowman, Golden Valley, Grant, Hettinger, Morton, Sioux, Slope and Stark, along with the Standing Rock Reservation.



South Dakota counties included in the proposed PRTC expansion plan are: Butte, Corson, Hardin, Lawrence, Meade, Pennington, Perkins and Ziebach, along with the Standing Rock Reservation and the Cheyenne River Reservation.



Wyoming counties included in the proposed PRTC expansion plan are: Campbell, Crook, Sheridan and Weston.



Note: To view the May 29, 2008, Federal Register notice, visit the "Property Rights" link at www.r-calfusa.com.



# # #



R-CALF USA (Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund, United Stockgrowers of America) is a national, non-profit organization dedicated to ensuring the continued profitability and viability of the U.S. cattle industry. R-CALF USA represents thousands of U.S. cattle producers on trade and marketing issues. Members are located across 47 states and are primarily cow/calf operators, cattle backgrounders, and/or feedlot owners. R-CALF USA has dozens of affiliate organizations and various main-street businesses are associate members. For more information, visit www.r-calfusa.com or, call 406-252-2516.
 
In 2005 they tried the same thing down here called the New Mexico Range Training Initiative. They wanted to expand the area which was ok with most of the people, but they wanted to drop the current hard deck restriction of no Mach speed runs from 30,000 ft MSL (Mean Sea Level) to the ground to 10,000 ft MSL which is what got everyone ticked off. At 10,000ft MSL that is only 4,000ft higher than our ranch house. and some others in the affected area are only 2,000ft from the dwellings. A flight of F-16 fighter doing Mach 1 (4 sconic booms in 5 seconds) at 30,000ft will knock pictures off the wall. (I use the good hanger with at least 3/4 in hook screwed into the studs) Think what will happen at 4,000 ft. Their so called sound experts said that no damage would come of this action. HA HA At the same time the Air Force admitted that all the Billions that was spent to build simulators for the pilots to train in were useless. (It is in the EIS they put out.)

Us Ranchers, being the good Americans we are, knew that our Military pilots can use and need all the training they can get, thought of ways that we could work with this, because we knew that in the Government eyes that the one with the most votes or money do what they want any way. One of the ways was to get the Air Force a 800 number that the rancher could call about 2 weeks before the BIG gather when you have all those yearlings finally in the pen and they could re route a training flight or do something else. Since we are spread out real good this should have worked and not every ranch gathers at the same time so they would still have a big area to play in.

When it didn't go thru like they wanted they tried to close Cannon Airbase but the good reps we have in congress got them to take the fighters some place else and bring in a Special ops unit that uses mostly Turbo props. I think that animals do get used to the constant noise but what gets them is a sudden change at the wrong time will cause them to spook and a herd of yearlings will spook at about anything. :lol:
 

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