calving chain placement? soapweed please explain.

[horseys]

read post by soapweed on pulling calf. I am not clear on placement of chain on the front legs. Why is a chain better than a rope? We are new, please help us. Thanks We understand behind hocks but do not understand the half hitch.

 

[John SD]

I'll try to explain the half hitch. Basically you put the loop of chain over the calf's foot but before you tighten the loop take some extra slack of the chain and make a 360 degree twist with another loop of chain through the large ring on the end of the chain and over the foot before you pull it all snug. You will then have two loops over the foot (actually above the hock, as you say)

I know I'm not explaining it well. :roll: Try it out over your own wrist figure it out before attempting it on the calf. The objective is to spread out and not concentrate all the pulling force in a very small area of the calf's leg.

Some people prefer chains. Some people prefer straps. Neither is absolutely right or wrong in every case. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The main thing is to keep things as clean as possible, don't panic or get in too much of a hurry. Quit while you are ahead if things appear to be beyond your ability. Call a more experienced neighbor for help or consult your vet. Good luck.

 

[MsSage]

I use ropes with the metal D shaped handles. The ropes already have the loop made and sewn. I have seen too many dew claws ripped off with the chains and guys pulling too hard and fast.
I make sure to place them above the dew claws. Pull one leg then the next while the cow is pushing. Make sure you pull straight out untill the head comes out then pull down.
As the Vet said~ up, up, up, ~ down, down, down
Most times once you get the head and shoulders the calf slides right out.
After you might need to hang the calf upside down over a fence ( NOT barb wire LOL) and rub their sides to help get the fluid out of their lungs then let Mom clean them up.

Its very scary the first time you have to do this alone but you can do this.
I only hope you have to pull a couple big ones before you have to try a breach.

 

[Silver]

I'll try to confuse you even more
I like to put the loop above the dewclaws, then take your chain and form a new loop, give it a half twist, and put the newly formed loop over the foot just above the hoof. This half hitch is just like your gandma used to put over her knitting needles :wink: . Make sure to time your pulling with the cows pushing: I hold the puller high and snug until she pushes, as she pushes I pull down on the pullers, then take more pressure with pullers, allowing them to come back up as you apply tension, repeat as necessary. Take your time and work with the cow. As you start to pull you should have your hand inside the cow on the calf's face to make sure it is coming properly. If it refuses to come a head snare is pretty handy. It is always a good idea to twist the calf as it comes out on a harder pull, it will help prevent the calf's hips locking up with the cows pelvis. I try to get it coming out turned 90 degrees if I can.

 

[kolanuraven]

Buy a OB strap...don't use a chain.

With a chain chances are greater that if it slips off with a lot of pull on it....you'll strip the hooves right off that baby and that's BAD...BAD...REALLY BAD!!!!


Ms Sage is giving you a great ' play by play'

 

[rancherfred]

I have to disagree with a couple of suggestions made here. If you pull down on the calf make sure that you aren't pulling down to the degree that you are anywhere approaching the cow's legs. When you pull down you are pinching the calf against the leading edge of the pelvis and making it much harder to pull the calf out. Silver's suggestion of pushing down on the puller as the cow pushes is as far as you should take it for pulling down on the calf. When pulling down I wouldn't take the calf any more than about 15-20 degrees down from straight out.

The other suggestion to hang the calf over the fence is actually going to make it much more difficult for the calf to breathe. When you hang a calf by its back legs you are putting all of the weight of its internal organs on the diaphragm. Remember that this is a calf that has not taken its first breath yet and all of that weight on the diaphragm will cause it to have an even bigger struggle to breathe. A better course of action would be to leave the calf laying on its side with its back end elevated slightly above its head. If you can just leave the calf so it is laying slightly down hill the fluid in its lungs will clear on its own.

 

[hillsdown]

Actually it is best to get the calf on there belly and tuck the front legs under them so they are in a normal laying down position while gently massaging both sides of there chest this will stimulate breathing and also help clear out any fluids . But yes hanging them upside down does more harm that good.

My suggestion is do a lot of reading and there are some really good sites on the web that exlain the correct and safe way to pull a calf. Better yet use the proper bull and make sure your cows pelvic area is suitable for said bull and you most likely will never have to pull a calf or assist a calf unless it is a breech, backwards, malpresentations or the second twin .

One tip of advice if it takes to two men to use a calf puller that calf cannot/should not be pulled and call your vet .

If you are pulling a calf properly and know what you are doing chains or straps will be just fine. To attach the chain/strap, loop it around the thin part of the leg above the fetlock. Then, make a half hitch and tighten it below the joint and above the foot.

Also get a double ratchet puller if you can, they are better and basically walk the calf out. You will also need a small set of chains as well as OB handles for small assistance needed.

here are a couple of good links for you:
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/baby_calf_health_Content.asp?ContentID=316406

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/ec/ec1370/

If you are still in doubt visit your vet and they will walk you through it while showing you how to properly attach the chains/strap to the calves legs..

 

[Texan]

http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/obstertrics.htm

 

[Kato]

The reason we use chains is because they can be cleaned more easily. We bring a pail of warm water with Hibitaine in it and leave the chains in the water until needed. We use it to wash the back end of the cow, as well.

Never ever use them with just one loop. This is how legs are broken, and a leg broken with a calving chain will not heal.

We also follow the "pull when she pushes" philosophy. May as well have her helping things along. We pull out until the calf is out as far as about half the body, then we go down. You have to visualize where the calf is compared to the cow's pelvis, then let gravity help you out. Don't pull down too soon or you're working against yourself.

 

[Soapweed]

All of the advice given is good and right on target. The only thing I would ad is that my vet prefers chains over straps for two reasons. One is that chains are easier to disinfect, by either drenching them or by boiling. The other is that with chains, even on a hard pull, all circulation isn't cut off around the calf's leg like it is with a strap. The very best advice is to use bulls that throw moderate sized calves that don't need to be pulled. :wink:

 

[Cedarcreek]

The very best advice is to use bulls that throw moderate sized calves that don't need to be pulled. :wink:

I have to agree with Soapweed on that. We are very particular about the bulls we use on our heifers, In the last four years I have pulled 5 calves out of close to 200 heifers. Used to pull 60% of them.

I use both chains and straps mostly whichever I have available at the time. With either one it is critical to get them on right.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

The very best advice is to use bulls that throw moderate sized calves that don't need to be pulled. :wink:

I have to agree with Soapweed on that. We are very particular about the bulls we use on our heifers, In the last four years I have pulled 5 calves out of close to 200 heifers. Used to pull 60% of them.

I use both chains and straps mostly whichever I have available at the time. With either one it is critical to get them on right.

:agree: :cowboy: I have used straps off the ivomec jugs and baler twine.

Just about anything in a pinch.

Oh yea even a lariat. :?

 

[katrina]

I hate the straps....... Gave em a toss to burn..... We use a chain and just double loop them...... Great advice everyone.....

 

[John SD]

I thought of a couple more points. A good calf puller that you rarely have to use is an excellent investment. When it's time to pull a calf you don't want to be fighting junk equipment for the life of the calf and your own safety.

I can't think of the name of the calf puller I have now, it's the same one my vet uses and sells. It has a square tube with holes in it for positive action. Works similarly to a handyman jack.

The previous Dr Frank's calf puller I used that Dad had was good in its day, but the friction jack developed a worn spot on the pipe right where the most crucial pull would be and would slip. Every time. So aggravating.

Another thing on putting your chain/strap over the calf's foot. Be sure you don't inadvertently have the calf's tongue caught in with the chain/strap. Sometimes you are doing things more by feel than anything else if you're not working in a well lit maternity ward. :wink:

Personally, I don't own a strap. I have two chains of different lengths. I almost always use the shortest chain I have because it gets the job done. The long chain is too long to use in conjunction with the calf puller.

 

[MsSage]

I dont use a puller. If I cant pull them I call the owner and let him use the dang thing.
Some talk about calving ease bulls LOL sorry but Jerseys dont have such a thing nor do norwegian red which our jersey crosses are bred with.

I use to pull about 3 a month I am now up to 6-8 a month and getting ready to hit the month with the highest amount due and most are the cross bred. :? :?

It is good to have a GOOD puller on hand cuz when you need it you dont have time to loose. Not sure which one we have its only been used in the past 6 months 2 times.
Still even with the puller MAKE SURE you only ratched with the contractions its not a car your jacking up.

 

[Denny]

I pulled one with the skid steer last spring. Came along the cow a 1/2 mile from the corral and 12 miles from the puller it was to tough to do by hand so I improvised all worked out fine but you must be careful.

 

[George]

Don't laugh to hard but I always have a hammer in the truck and keep "clean " baling twine behind the seat as well. Most times I can pull by using the twine ( loop above the dew claws and half hitch below ) then tying the twine to the hamer handle then using my feet against the cows back legs and pulling with the cows movments I can get anything that does not need a vet. Throw the twine away and replace.

I'm very lucky in that I don't have to do this often. Had a neighbor who used to call me 3 or 4 times a year ( I'm free ) and he always wanted me to get better equipment but I never have. I don't remember how many calves I pulled for him before he retired and moved to town.

 

[Soapweed]

I've pulled a lot of calves with a lariat rope. When doing this, I like to get the one loop around both legs up above the ankles. You have to use stealth and cunningness to get it on before the cow gets up. Once the rope is in place, you can pull by hand, by horse, or by vehicle. One of the biggest calves ever born on this ranch was pulled in this way with the aid of our Subaru stationwagon school car. After looking at the size of the Gelbvieh cross calf when it was up sucking, I returned with a tractor, stackmover with hydra-fork, and a scale. By hog-tying the calf and raising it in the air with the hydra-fork, it was determined that the calf weighed 135 pounds. I do recall that the clutch was smoking in the Subaru before the calf was un-inserted from the cow. :roll:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I've pulled a lot of calves with a lariat rope. When doing this, I like to get the one loop around both legs up above the ankles. You have to use stealth and cunningness to get it on before the cow gets up. Once the rope is in place, you can pull by hand, by horse, or by vehicle. One of the biggest calves ever born on this ranch was pulled in this way with the aid of our Subaru stationwagon school car. After looking at the size of the Gelbvieh cross calf when it was up sucking, I returned with a tractor, stackmover with hydra-fork, and a scale. By hog-tying the calf and raising it in the air with the hydra-fork, it was determined that the calf weighed 135 pounds. I do recall that the clutch was smoking in the Subaru before the calf was un-inserted from the cow. :roll:

Where theirs a will there's a way.

 

[Soapweed]

I've pulled a lot of calves with a lariat rope. When doing this, I like to get the one loop around both legs up above the ankles. You have to use stealth and cunningness to get it on before the cow gets up. Once the rope is in place, you can pull by hand, by horse, or by vehicle. One of the biggest calves ever born on this ranch was pulled in this way with the aid of our Subaru stationwagon school car. After looking at the size of the Gelbvieh cross calf when it was up sucking, I returned with a tractor, stackmover with hydra-fork, and a scale. By hog-tying the calf and raising it in the air with the hydra-fork, it was determined that the calf weighed 135 pounds. I do recall that the clutch was smoking in the Subaru before the calf was un-inserted from the cow. :roll:

Where theirs a will there's a way.

That's what I tell my son whose name is Will. :wink:

On the days when he used to help me with windmill work, I'd call him for breakfast by saying, "Well, well, Will, let's well today."