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My take

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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George
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My take

Postby George » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:34 pm

I am going to post this on political bull - - - but I feel it belongs more mainstream.

I am trying to put together a coherent letter for the local superintendent to present to the school board. John Farquhar helped me get my thoughts concise. This is a very rough draft - - - the facts are all verifiable but I might not have them presented as clearly as I want.






When seconds count Police are only minutes away!

Attn:

I first want to express that I'm as shocked and angered as you are over these school massacres, and believe it would be helpful if we had a discussion on the matter, before it happens here and perhaps some strategies to prevent it.

Most school shootings last around 3-10 minutes the latest one in Florida lasted 6 minutes from the first shot till the shooter abandoned his weapon and fled the building by blending in with the students.

Most areas think that three minutes is a great response time, and in many areas it is, but the bear in mind the event will be well underway before anyone calls 911, at the Aurora shooting the first officer entered the building 90 seconds after the first 911 call came through, they were 85 dead and wounded, and the killer was already out of the building.

Some people feel that a School resource officer being posted at the entry would be a great deterrent but let us surmise that the perpetrator knew there would be one - - - in a strategic move he hides his intentions until he is in close proximity to the officer and takes him out. Now the resource officer is a trip hazard - - - not because of his inaction but because the people in places of responsibility not wanting to address the situation but wanting to appease public opinion placed him in a position of being the first target!

Now the clock has started and in all probability there will be more victims very quickly, in the recent shooting in Florida a football coach ( highly heroic man ) tried to intervene but did not have the needed training or equipment to stop him and then became another casualty . This was repeated by at least 2 other staff members. These people laid down their lives in a futile attempt to save the lives of those around them. 17 students slaughtered & 14 wounded and the perpetrator then made his escape all in less than 6 minutes.

Lets now change the story.

There are currently 18 states that allow school staff to be armed, perhaps one of the best models is the state of Utah, School staff has been allowed to carry concealed, without extra training, or even informing the school, in 2011 Utah allowed anyone with a Utah CPL to enter schools. In 14 years there has been 1 minor accident with a teacher. Only 2 incidents, a failed suicide attempt by a student, and one fight on school property, but outside the building. Two students got in a fight and one was wounded, that's it in the entire state in 14 years.

A program in Ohio has 3 days of training, and since it began in 2013 over 1300 school staff have been trained, certified, and work in 76 of Ohio's 88 counties, there has not been a single accident, or incident in the past 5 years in any of the schools that have armed educators. They do require that they attend all 3 days of training and qualify, and approx 80% pass the course.

Having trained staff along with a uniform RSO gives layered protection, everyone knows the officer, but they do not know which teachers are armed. A good example Feb 2017 a student waited several minutes after he saw the RSO leave the cafeteria and opened fire on 2 students in a love triangle gone bad, he was out of the building before the officer could get back. So he waited till the only person that could stop him was out of sight, this school did not have armed staff, but if it had and was common knowledge that there were unknown members of the staff possibly carrying a firearm, perhaps even Sally the lunch lady, the incident likely would not have occurred. .

From general consensus we know anywhere from 10-27% of the school staff will volunteer, to cover liability they would go through 24-30 hours of training of how to respond to a situation as well as firearms training and trauma rescue training, blood loss is a major concern after the threat is stopped. Some will suggest they have the same training as police officers, but that is unnecessary, they are being trained for one task - - - to stop an active killer, they do not need knowledge on high speed driving, writing tickets etc, very little of LE training revolves around shooting.

After training is completed normally around 10-20% of the staff is certified, additional training or re-qualification would be at the school's discretion. Now let us return to the Florida shooting, if the third person to come into contact was the coach and he was one of the 10% it is very likely the shooter would have been the 3rd person shot and everything could have been over in less than a minute.

With the way things are handled now the police are the note takers and will completely record what happened for all to read about in history. I repeat when seconds count the police are only minutes away. This leaves decisions to be made - - - how do you want your children protected ?

At a local school district they keep an off duty Sheriff deputy at the main entrance - - - he has a great view of people coming in and thru cameras can monitor most of the school. I did a little exercise and if a shooting happened in the elementary school ( remember Sandy Hook ) it would take between 4 or 5 minutes for the Deputy to reach the breach - - - just in time to record what happened!

Of course the question, how is it funded? In Ohio they hold firearms raffles to raise funds, there is no cost to the school, perhaps some out of pocket cost to staff. The proceeds typically cover the cost of training, ammunition and some of the travel costs for 18-20 staff members..

One very important factor to understand these killers only have one real fear, and that being failure, they are not looking for fights, they are looking to kill and achieve the highest score possible to be famous. Once word gets out that the staff is armed, it in itself will likely curtail any plans on that location.


George W. King Pres.
Greensboro Sand & Gravel
German Shepherd Kingdom
4667 West 350 South
Knightstown, IN. 46148
765-624-9342
www.greensboro-sand-gravel.com
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Watch your thoughts, they become your words.
Watch your words, they become your actions.
Watch your actions, they become your habits.
Watch your habits, they become your character.
Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

John D Farquhar
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NRA Training Counselor-All Disciplines
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The common trait of old warriors is that they continually sharpen themselves by study, by training, by cultivation of spirit: always striving to be better tomorrow than today.
Warriors who do not do this do not live to be old warriors.

Death smiles at us all, the Sheepdog smiles back.
Watch your thoughts, they become your words.
Watch your words, they become your actions.
Watch your actions, they become your habits.
Watch your habits, they become your character.
Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

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Big Muddy rancher
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Re: My take

Postby Big Muddy rancher » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:19 pm

That looks pretty good to me George, would you mind if I reposted it over on the Weatherby Nation forum?
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Re: My take

Postby George » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:40 pm

Please spread the word - - -
Watch your thoughts, they become your words.

Watch your words, they become your actions.

Watch your actions, they become your habits.

Watch your habits, they become your character.

Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

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Re: My take

Postby Soapweed » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:42 pm

Sounds like a great idea, George.

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Re: My take

Postby Big Muddy rancher » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:47 am

George you should read the replies you post got on The Weatherby Nation.

http://weatherbynation.com/index.php?topic=16226.0
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Re: My take

Postby George » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:47 am

Thanks, I'm glad it is spreading - - - I have gone back over it slowly and corrected spelling and grammer.

I am trying to put together a coherent letter for the local superintendent to present to the school board. John Farquhar helped me get my thoughts concise. This is a very rough draft - - - the facts are all verifiable but I might not have them presented as clearly as I want.


When seconds count Police are only minutes away!
I first want to express that I'm as shocked and angered as you are over these school massacres, and believe it would be helpful if we had a discussion on the matter, before it happens here and perhaps some strategies to prevent it.
Most school shootings last around 3-10 minutes the latest one in Florida lasted 6 minutes from the first shot until the shooter abandoned his weapon and fled the building by blending in with the students.
Most areas think that three minutes is a great response time, and in many areas it is, but bear in mind the event will be well underway before anyone calls 911, at the Aurora shooting the first officer entered the building 90 seconds after the first 911 call came through, there were 85 dead and wounded, and the killer was already out of the building.
Some people feel that a School Resource Officer being posted at the entry would be a great deterrent but let us surmise that the perpetrator knew there would be one - - - in a strategic move he hides his intentions until he is in close proximity to the officer and takes him out. Now the School Resource Officer is a trip hazard - - - not because of his inaction but because the people in places of responsibility not wanting to address the situation but wanting to appease public opinion placed him in a position of being the first target!
Now the clock has started and in all probability there will be more victims very quickly, in the recent shooting in Florida a football coach ( highly heroic man ) tried to intervene but did not have the needed training or equipment to stop him and then became another casualty . This was repeated by at least 2 other staff members. These people laid down their lives in a futile attempt to save the lives of those around them. 17 students slaughtered & 14 wounded and the perpetrator then made his escape all in less than 6 minutes.

Lets now change the story.
There are currently 18 states that allow school staff to be armed, perhaps one of the best models is the state of Utah, School staff has been allowed to carry concealed, without extra training, or even informing the school, in 2011 Utah allowed anyone with a Utah CPL to enter schools. In 14 years there has been 1 minor accident with a teacher. Only 2 incidents, a failed suicide attempt by a student, and one fight on school property, but outside the building. Two students got in a fight and one was wounded, that's it in the entire state in 14 years.
A program in Ohio has 3 days of training, and since it began in 2013 over 1300 school staff have been trained, certified, and work in 76 of Ohio's 88 counties. There has not been a single accident, or incident in the past 5 years in any of the schools that have armed educators. They do require that they attend all 3 days of training and qualify, and approx 80% pass the course.
Having trained staff along with a uniform SRO gives layered protection, everyone knows the officer, but they do not know which teachers are armed. A good example Feb 2017 a student waited several minutes after he saw the SRO leave the cafeteria and opened fire on 2 students in a love triangle gone bad. He was out of the building before the officer could get back. So he waited till the only person that could stop him was out of sight, this school did not have armed staff, but if it had and was common knowledge that there were unknown members of the staff possibly carrying a firearm, perhaps even Sally the lunch lady, the incident likely would not have occurred.
From general consensus we know anywhere from 10-27% of the school staff will volunteer. To cover liability they would go through 24-30 hours of training of how to respond to a situation as well as firearms training and trauma rescue training, blood loss is a major concern after the threat is stopped. Some will suggest they have the same training as police officers, but that is unnecessary, they are being trained for one task - - - to stop an active killer, they do not need knowledge on high speed driving, writing tickets etc, very little of LE training revolves around shooting.
After training is completed normally around 10-20% of the staff is certified, additional training or re-qualification would be at the school's discretion. Now let us return to the Florida shooting, if the third person to come into contact was the coach and he was one of the 10% it is very likely the shooter would have been the 3rd person shot and everything could have been over in less than a minute.
With the way things are handled now the police are the note takers and will completely record what happened for all to read about in history. I repeat when seconds count Police are only minutes away. This leaves decisions to be made - - - how do you want your children protected?
At a local school district they keep an off duty Sheriff Deputy at the main entrance - - - he has a great view of people coming in and thru cameras can monitor most of the school. I did a little exercise and if a shooting happened in the elementary school ( remember Sandy Hook ) it would take between 4 or 5 minutes for the Deputy to reach the breach - - - just in time to record what happened!
Of course the question, how is it funded? In Ohio they hold firearms raffles to raise funds, there is no cost to the school, perhaps some out of pocket cost to staff. The proceeds typically cover the cost of training, ammunition and some of the travel costs for 18-20 staff members.
One very important factor to understand these killers only have one real fear, and that being failure, they are not looking for fights, they are looking to kill and achieve the highest score possible to be famous. Once word gets out that the staff is armed, it in itself will likely curtail any plans on that location.
Watch your thoughts, they become your words.

Watch your words, they become your actions.

Watch your actions, they become your habits.

Watch your habits, they become your character.

Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

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George
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Re: My take

Postby George » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:48 am

FYI I posted this on Fackbook and it was taken down - - - no first amendment on Facebook
Watch your thoughts, they become your words.

Watch your words, they become your actions.

Watch your actions, they become your habits.

Watch your habits, they become your character.

Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

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Re: My take

Postby Traveler » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:43 pm

George wrote:FYI I posted this on Fackbook and it was taken down - - - no first amendment on Facebook
Time to abandon something that censors a rational point of view, and it will get worse, not better. Too bad forums like this seem to have lost so many to it.

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Re: My take

Postby lavacarancher » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:56 pm

Gorge, there is some merit in what you are proposing. I respectfully disagree about arming teachers and while I disagree I can see some 7', 300 pound 17yo taking a weapon away from a teacher and using it as he pleases. What I still can't understand is how a shooter gained access to a school campus. Do you think anyone would be able to get on an aircraft with a weapon, especially a long gun? Why do we have "open" school campus' that allow anyone to wander on and off the school grounds willy-nilly? Why is no one talking about that?

Further, the AR15 is NOT an assault weapon by todays definition so eliminating "assault weapons" will not solve the problem. I own a couple of semi-auto weapons (Remington 742's) that I inherited from kin folks and the feds are NOT getting them as long as I'm alive, period. So come get them Ms. Pelosi. Having said that I don't believe that an AR15 (semi auto), AR16, AK47, mini Mac or any other fully automatic weapon has a place in civilian hands. They are not hunting weapons and their sole purpose is to kill - other people. And the NRA can kiss my hidey hole.

I am assuming that (besides having their own agenda) the anti gun nuts are concerned about human life? YES? If yes, why are they not concerned about automobile accidents which take MANY, MANY more lives than shootings. If you don't believe that look it up. The gov't keeps records like and the statistics are easy to find.

I applaud you for trying to do something. This crap has to stop. Let me know if I can help.

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Re: My take

Postby George » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:56 pm

When I first went on the Sheriff's Dept. in 1974 we carried on commercial aircraft all the time - - - and there were no problems - - - the American people are not all dumb - - - if you remember there were 4 aircraft on 9-11-2001 and the people on the fourth aircraft learned what was happening and it was brought to an end.

I believe that if we had not been stopped and there were a few Police flying and the people knew that anyone on the plane might be an armed officer we would not be in this mess - - - anymore I don't fly commercial - - - if my little Cherokee 180 can't get me there my 40 foot Dutch Star will and in either case I do not have to put up with the drama.

I do not have all the answere but I still have faith in the general population of the United States - - - not so much the polititions who feel their only pressing job is to get re-elected and do not give a wit about us - - - just want a good sound bite to get votes and make up excuses for not doing anything.
Watch your thoughts, they become your words.

Watch your words, they become your actions.

Watch your actions, they become your habits.

Watch your habits, they become your character.

Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

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Big Muddy rancher
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Re: My take

Postby Big Muddy rancher » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:05 pm

"Having said that I don't believe that an AR15 (semi auto), AR16, AK47, mini Mac or any other fully automatic weapon has a place in civilian hands. They are not hunting weapons and their sole purpose is to kill - other people"

It shouldn't take a Canadian to explain that the 2nd Amendment didn't give US citizens the right to hunt deer.
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I can't tame wild women.



But I can make tame women wild.

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Re: My take

Postby lavacarancher » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:15 am

George (and Big Muddy) I am not trying to start an argument, just offering another opinion. Opinions are like elbows, everyone has at least one. Again, I respectfully disagree about the comment as to the reason for the decline in aircraft hijackings. I don't believe it was the armed air marshalls that stopped the carnage but rather the fact that the weapons and nut cases were stopped BEFORE they were able to board. Metal detectors and body searches is the reason folks who want to do harm are not allowed on an airplane. Why not have metal detectors at ONE entrance to a school. No one gets in carrying a gun.

George, I don't fly anymore either. Not afraid. As you said, I refuse to put up with the drama. As far as I'm concerned it was the SOB rag heads that caused me to lose my freedom.

Big, same as above. Just offering an opinion. Do you really believe that when the constitution was written the fathers had any idea that automatic weapons were in the offering to normal human beings? Remember, the smooth bore, black powder, single shot musket, was the only weapon available, public or otherwise. Shooting a deer with an AK47 is like driving a tack with a sledge hammer. Also remember that the constitution says "armed militia". I would assume that armed militia implies some militia training.

Have either one of you ever done any "brain storming" as a way to come up with solutions for a difficult problem? I have used that technique for years in my engineering background and it works! Maybe we should try that and offer up several solutions to the problem.

Thanks for letting me share my opinions.


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