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Cows for sale?

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Big Swede

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We ultra sounded our cows today. Since the moisture situation is not good and the future is questionable, I had the vet group and identify the cows as to their state of pregnancy. This is what we have been doing lately anyway to keep age groups of calves segregated and healthier. Overall their were 6.5% open, about normal, but the thing that surprised me is that in a 60 day breeding season there were about 9% due to calve in the second 30 day calving interval. This percentage has been dropping consistently for the last 3 years. Two years ago there were 135 head in the late group, last year there was 58 head in the group and today there was 42 that fell into that second half of the breeding season. Another nice outcome is that the coming 3 year old cows checked at less than 3% open.

So, what I am thinking is if it doesn't rain by April I will have at least 42 head of bred cows for sale due to start calving June 7th for 30 days. I know this doesn't fit a lot of your programs but I know there are some out there who might be interested. If this happens they will be from 3 to 12 years old and it will be a complete dispersion of this calving group.
 
You could have just tightened up the breeding season to 42 days in the past and saved yourself some headaches. I couldn't handle 60 day seasons.
 
I'd say your decision from a couple years back is working Big Swede. By culling those cows as breds you can shorten your calving and have that much more uniformity.

We don't pull bulls til we preg test, except for heifers. There are markets for cows calving in every month of the year. :wink:
 
My Dad has always said a bred cow is worth more than an open cow and I would have to agree. Normally I put a bull back with the opens to produce fall calving cows to sell in the spring but with the feed situation I think I'll just sell them.
 
with the dry conditions this summer, i left bulls in for almost 75 days. unlike some, i don't mind a few of those later calves. in my opionion a late calf is better than no calf. plus, some of those later, lighter calves are worth as much or more towards spring than big calves are now.

i never understood the "45" day rule, especially on heifers. don't get me wrong, i understand the idea of a uniform calf crop, but i think alot of good heifers and cows get their heads cut off because the bull was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

IMO :)
 
Justin said:
i never understood the "45" day rule, especially on heifers. don't get me wrong, i understand the idea of a uniform calf crop, but i think alot of good heifers and cows get their heads cut off because the bull was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

IMO :)
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AMEN
 
So, what I am thinking is if it doesn't rain by April I will have at least 42 head of bred cows for sale due to start calving June 7th for 30 days. I know this doesn't fit a lot of your programs but I know there are some out there who might be interested. If this happens they will be from 3 to 12 years old and it will be a complete dispersion of this calving group.
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Are you finding the ultra sound that accurate. Can they go as fast ultra sounding ?? That is really good preg percentages, I agree with a bred cow being worth more then a dry cow , the argument is selecting for fertility. What we do is run are hereford bulls for 42 days, then pull them bunch the cows and put out red bulls. The cross bred calf evens things out a little and I am breeding some cows red anyway so I have the bulls. It works here cause not many cows getting bred the last cycle and being from a wet area my fields are small.
 
Read a column once by Don Campbell about this very issue and it made some sense. He said the issue is a marketing issue, not a management or production issue. I think there are others on this board that use this mentality as well.
We generally use about a 45 to 60 day breeding period, but an Angus calf born at June 20 is a lot different than a SMAN calf born May 1st. How we tackle this is we market our SMAN steers (and large AN calves) together, market our SMAN heifers privately, market our smaller calves onto (or off of) the grass market and market open heifers 2 years old as grass finished beef. Some years our most profitable cows turn out to be the late calvers, other years it is the early calvers, and other years it is the heifers that did not actually succeed in getting bred. This approach also allows us to spread our cash flow as desired/needed.
I can see if freight was an issue (boondocks of BC) how this strategy could fail miserably and you would only want to send full trucks once a year. I can also see how if an operation was really spread out how it could be a challenge, or if you are juggling a job/kids/ranching/etc.
We have even made money buying off cattle for a discount that fit our off cattle, backgrounding/grassing and selling a larger uniform group at a premium.
I know some folks are even using Spring/Fall calving programs to do some of this kind of thing.
 
4Diamond said:
Justin said:
i never understood the "45" day rule, especially on heifers. don't get me wrong, i understand the idea of a uniform calf crop, but i think alot of good heifers and cows get their heads cut off because the bull was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

IMO :)
Click to expand...

AMEN
Click to expand...

As RSL said, it's a great marketing tool. But I believe also a good production tool as well. Running 45 days goes a long way in identifying the dink calves. If you have two heifer calves, one born in mid-March and the other in mid-May, who is superior on a performance basis? If you adjust the weaning weights, you have a ballpark. A lot of guys would say the older calf is the better calf because 'it's older':roll:. But I would much rather have a tight group of calves.

I specifically want cows/heifers that calve end of April through till mid May and wean at least a 500 lb calf by end of October/first of November. Anything that brings home a 350 lb dink is gone because it gets singled out at the mart and gets a big discount. The biggest discount factor I encounter is not a breed issue (Hereford). I can meet and top good Angus or buckskins prices when dealing in pen-size lots . It's the single calves (light-weight/heavy-weight) that kill me. And buying back a low-dollar calf doesn't pay in my world because it ends up selling as a single as a yearling half the time anyways (unless you buy extras to make a pen = taking on risk, which I avoid).

I know some local operators with much larger herds than mine who run their heifers for 25 days and cows for 45. Their breds fetch a premium.

I guess it all comes down to how long you want to be calving. I like to go out and check cows in a t-shirt and be 90% done in a few weeks, rather than a few months. A lot of the neighbors start in mid-March and by mid-April ask 'are you calving yet?' Nope. But somehow I manage to finish calving before them (or about the same time), without all the heavy coats, frozen ears and sleepless nights.

We also run a fall herd, but that is again, a marketing tool (Fall calves always seem to be hot in the spring or fall as yearlings). Not a way to cover up poor production and open cows, like what seems to be the norm in the industry.
 
You are a lucky man if your Herefords match black cattle. Here in SWMO they sell as much as .25 back from the blacks especially if they are feather necked.
 
4Diamond said:
You are a lucky man if your Herefords match black cattle. Here in SWMO they sell as much as .25 back from the blacks especially if they are feather necked.
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Thats the same in saskatchewan,if i have any heifers that have a lot of
resemblance of a hereford in the fall.I will keep them and breed them to a black bull,so i don't get discounted when i sell her calves.Herefords make good cows,but they better be bred to a black bull here anyways.
 
My vet is extremely fast and accurate with ultrasound. He was getting about 100 per hour. I asked if he even just armed very many anymore and he told me he uses ultrasound on every cow. I can't remember what he charges but it's worth every penny. I agree with RSL, every way we can add value to our cull cows is money in our pockets. Whether that's feeding or breeding them for sale in a better marketing window it usually pays dividends.
 
4Diamond said:
You are a lucky man if your Herefords match black cattle. Here in SWMO they sell as much as .25 back from the blacks especially if they are feather necked.
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Up here, buyers love to steal Herefords, especially the good ones. The quicker you learn this and act to prevent it, the more money you will make. Now I will make a point that the buyers do 'prefer' the Horned Herefords, or, if available, exceptional Polled Herefords.

Case-in-point, my calves sold end of October (auction), I stopped the drop at $1.50 and bid them up and let them go at $1.74 on 506 lbs average. Higher price than any blacks (450-550lbs) at the same sale and 20 dollars behind the top buckskin calves (in that category), but they averaged 530 lbs.

And even though I don't raise them, buyers also love to steal Shorthorns, for no reason other than they know they get away with it.

I used to take what I got (within reason) up till a few years ago when I was 'enlightened'. Nowadays, I have no problem keeping buyers honest and walk away from every sale happy.
 
I'd be looking for a new place to sell my calves if i tried that,the order buyers wouldn't take to kindly to that.
 
GM88 said:
I always thought it was a bit taboo to bid up your own cattle
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You'd be buying your own cattle here doing that.
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Around here the auctioneer introduces you before your calves sell. If you are sitting around any buyers they usually ask you questions about your calves. It would get kinda strange if I suddenly started to bid.
 
I guess if I wanted to own my own calves I could save the trucking and commissions...
We market pretty hard before our calves go and send a thank you note to the buyers through the auction market and the auction when we use that method. Costs about $2 and 1/2 hour of my time.
We also send a presheet about a week before we send the calves to reintroduce our program and the care we take with our product. Again costs about $2 and 1/2 hour of my time.
I don't think bidding on my own calves would be a ticket to long term success. I am fairly certain that it would at best be a one time opportunity, and I am 100% certain that those cattle buyers have been schooled on the way up and I can't afford to learn as much as they already know. :shock:
I actually prefer selling out of the yard where we can negotiate prior to calves ever going up the chute.
 

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