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Range cubes

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Haytrucker
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Re: Range cubes

Postby Haytrucker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:35 pm

I'm gonna disagree with RW about alfalfa. If fed as protein I don't think I see more than 5 pounds of green left behind any bale I feed. Wind will waste more unrolling than the cows do. We are fussy about when we bale and that helps with palatitibility. I see stems left behind but not alfalfa stems.

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Faster horses
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Re: Range cubes

Postby Faster horses » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:30 am

Haytrucker wrote:I'm gonna disagree with RW about alfalfa. If fed as protein I don't think I see more than 5 pounds of green left behind any bale I feed. Wind will waste more unrolling than the cows do. We are fussy about when we bale and that helps with palatitibility. I see stems left behind but not alfalfa stems.


I think it has to do with area and like you say, being fussy about when it is baled. When we lived in SW Montana, a very cool
climate, it was hard to get alfalfa put up that wasn't stemmy, at least first cutting. Yet, I have seen alfalfa that was so green and leafy you could almost eat it as salad.

We put up hay for years with a little square baler and we found that the Hesston In-line balers left a lot more leaves on the
hay than the more traditional balers. Since we are putting up horse hay in small squares now, that is the baler we have gone
back to.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby TexasBred » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:03 pm

rightwinger82 wrote:I am now considering a grain mix of half cracked corn half whole cotton seed. That would be around 15 protien and 15 fat. No out of wack minerals or trace elements for around the same price as cake, and no need to change mineral programs. If all a person was short was protien alfalfa would be fine. Especially if you feed twice the amount needed, cause they ain't gonna eat them stems. I am looking to push fat to keep consumption of hay up.

Have you considered just feeding straight cottonseed and feeding only half as much. Should still have adequate crude protein and great energy level not to mention milk production if you have cows nursing calves. Would be a great compliment to hay and your cattle should flourish.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby Faster horses » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:12 pm

We had a friend in Texas that fed whole cottonseed. The cows loved it and did amazing on it, mixed with hay. We had never seen that done but always knew what high regard the oldtimers in the north had for it. They still tell stories about cottonseed cake and how good it was. It had lots of energy because of the cottonseed oil in it. Now, up here, if you can get cottonseed cake, the oil is pressed out and used for other things, so it isn't as good as it was. (I am referring to cottonseed cake, not whole cottonseed.)
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Re: Range cubes

Postby TexasBred » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:59 pm

Faster horses wrote:We had a friend in Texas that fed whole cottonseed. The cows loved it and did amazing on it, mixed with hay. We had never seen that done but always knew what high regard the oldtimers in the north had for it. They still tell stories about cottonseed cake and how good it was. It had lots of energy because of the cottonseed oil in it. Now, up here, if you can get cottonseed cake, the oil is pressed out and used for other things, so it isn't as good as it was. (I am referring to cottonseed cake, not whole cottonseed.)

Same here FH. Cottonseed meal has about 1% fat guaranteed. the new process is much more efficient at extracting the oil. Still a great product and the primary protein source used by most feed companies for cattle feed across the south/southwest. Just a personal opinion but you can't make a commercial feed as good as whole cottonseed. Just limited by how much you can feed but it will make a cow bloom and milk production and butterfat will go straight up.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby Faster horses » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:07 pm

TexasBred wrote:
Faster horses wrote:We had a friend in Texas that fed whole cottonseed. The cows loved it and did amazing on it, mixed with hay. We had never seen that done but always knew what high regard the oldtimers in the north had for it. They still tell stories about cottonseed cake and how good it was. It had lots of energy because of the cottonseed oil in it. Now, up here, if you can get cottonseed cake, the oil is pressed out and used for other things, so it isn't as good as it was. (I am referring to cottonseed cake, not whole cottonseed.)

Same here FH. Cottonseed meal has about 1% fat guaranteed. the new process is much more efficient at extracting the oil. Still a great product and the primary protein source used by most feed companies for cattle feed across the south/southwest. Just a personal opinion but you can't make a commercial feed as good as whole cottonseed. Just limited by how much you can feed but it will make a cow bloom and milk production and butterfat will go straight up.


It is my thought that Cottonseed Cake is what is used up here because of transporting it.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby Haytrucker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 pm

Ok I have 2 questions, is there any fat in corn stalks and alfalfa? And how much is there in DDG? I lied, one more, what percent does a 2nd thru 3rd trimester cow need? Anymore than she carries on her ribs going into winter?

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Re: Range cubes

Postby Faster horses » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:27 pm

What percent are you talking about? Fat? Protein? Nutrition requirements go up in the third trimester.
If you are wondering about fat, I don't know of % fat that is a nutrition requirement.
As for condition scoring, you need to look at their back, not their ribs/belly. Cows can have a 'hay belly' and be
thin over their back. That's where condition scoring starts--on their back.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby TexasBred » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:45 am

Haytrucker wrote:Ok I have 2 questions, is there any fat in corn stalks and alfalfa? And how much is there in DDG? I lied, one more, what percent does a 2nd thru 3rd trimester cow need? Anymore than she carries on her ribs going into winter?

Roughage (hay, alfalfa) seldom has any really measurable fat although it will always have some. DDG on the other hand may contain as much as 12-14% crude fat depending on processing. A third trimester cow needs only a maintenance feed, crude protein not being as critical as energy level. Good quality hay often makes it unnecessary to supplement them with anything other than the hay.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby Faster horses » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:47 am

Third trimester 'maintenence feed' does require higher nutrition requirements than second trimester. Of course, after she calves, her nutrition requirements are even greater.
If the producer can get more body condition on their cows before going into winter/third trimester it is much cheaper to maintain that condition as opposed to trying to build body condition when the weather is cold. Sometimes, here in the north, we can't feed enough to maintain them, so good body condition going into the winter is very important; both for the cow and the producers pocketbook.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby TexasBred » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Faster horses wrote:Third trimester 'maintenence feed' does require higher nutrition requirements than second trimester. Of course, after she calves, her nutrition requirements are even greater.
If the producer can get more body condition on their cows before going into winter/third trimester it is much cheaper to maintain that condition as opposed to trying to build body condition when the weather is cold. Sometimes, here in the north, we can't feed enough to maintain them, so good body condition going into the winter is very important; both for the cow and the producers pocketbook.

Should always go into winter with cattle in good condition regardless of where you live....but when you need conditioning lower protein higher energy feed is usually higher quality and less expensive than high protein feed and does a much better job of improving body condition.
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Re: Range cubes

Postby rightwinger82 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm

TexasBred wrote:
rightwinger82 wrote:I am now considering a grain mix of half cracked corn half whole cotton seed. That would be around 15 protien and 15 fat. No out of wack minerals or trace elements for around the same price as cake, and no need to change mineral programs. If all a person was short was protien alfalfa would be fine. Especially if you feed twice the amount needed, cause they ain't gonna eat them stems. I am looking to push fat to keep consumption of hay up.

Have you considered just feeding straight cottonseed and feeding only half as much. Should still have adequate crude protein and great energy level not to mention milk production if you have cows nursing calves. Would be a great compliment to hay and your cattle should flourish.

I have considered straight cottonseed. I have no experience with it, only read about it. Due to my location and shipping and handling, i thought the addition of 50 percent cracked corn would help it flow and handle better. Also, i didn't know how the cows might react to them little fuzzy seeds, thought the corn wouldn't run them off. What percent waste would you think there would be feeding whole cottonseed on the ground? Lots of folks feed ddg or grain mix on the ground here out of a cake feeder. Thanks, i had been wanting to hear from someone with whole cottonseed experience.
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