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Re: Range cubes

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:54 am
by Denny
I've got a load of dry distillers coming next week $115 a ton cheaper than alfalfa this year but it is just for tha calves. I have a couple hundred bales of pea and oat hay that should tide the protein over for the cows.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:20 pm
by Haytrucker
My comment might be a question, I'm not sure. I have been operating on the theory that a range cow could use a pound of protein per day when fed as 5 lbs of 20 percent alfalfa. We are in a three cutting irrigated alfalfa area. If I have been overfeeding I sure haven't noticed. Might be cheaper to feed DDG but we unroll all the other hay when we need to feed more than corn stalk grazing provides. I know every bottom line is different, this suits ours.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 pm
by Faster horses
Do you meaning adding an EXTRA pound of protein per head, per day, haytrucker? You are at .9# with 5# of 20% alfalfa.

Alfalfa is the cheapest protein source (or used to be before DDG's etc) especially when you raise it yourself.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:35 pm
by RSL
Denny wrote:I've got a load of dry distillers coming next week $115 a ton cheaper than alfalfa this year but it is just for tha calves. I have a couple hundred bales of pea and oat hay that should tide the protein over for the cows.

I know with Wheat DDGS you have to be careful with the Cal:Phos ratio since the DDG are high in phos and low in Ca.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:35 am
by Brad S
FH, would you think the heat involved in cubing degrades vitamine quality if you are feeding vitamins and minerals in the cubes? Otherwise, cubes 3 times a week is a great delivery vehicle for minerals.

I've raised some 25% protein hay, but I've raised a lot of alfalfa that might show at the state fair that's a lot closer to 20% cp.

Also, when cows are pretty much on welfare getting most or all their feed from a haybale, I like some of the tame hay. Decent millet hay or Sudan hay might be in the low teen area and not need supplementation beyond mineral pack.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:01 am
by Denny
RSL wrote:
Denny wrote:I've got a load of dry distillers coming next week $115 a ton cheaper than alfalfa this year but it is just for tha calves. I have a couple hundred bales of pea and oat hay that should tide the protein over for the cows.

I know with Wheat DDGS you have to be careful with the Cal:Phos ratio since the DDG are high in phos and low in Ca.


Yeah I've fed a lot of it thru the years and feed the appropriate mineral in this case which costs less due to be a low phos mineral.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:30 am
by Faster horses
Brad S wrote:FH, would you think the heat involved in cubing degrades vitamine quality if you are feeding vitamins and minerals in the cubes? Otherwise, cubes 3 times a week is a great delivery vehicle for minerals.

I've raised some 25% protein hay, but I've raised a lot of alfalfa that might show at the state fair that's a lot closer to 20% cp.

Also, when cows are pretty much on welfare getting most or all their feed from a haybale, I like some of the tame hay. Decent millet hay or Sudan hay might be in the low teen area and not need supplementation beyond mineral pack.


From what I have learned, it is an absolute that heat degrades vitamin/mineral quality. With that being said,
cattle that are on cake won't consume as much free-choice mineral. But that's ok, unless they haven't been
on a good mineral program prior to feeding cake. With lick tubs, unless the plant is very careful, adding a mineral pack--the mineral could stay in pockets, and not be dispersed throughout the tub. We suggest putting mineral out free-choice with the tubs. Again, they most likely won't eat as much of the loose mineral.

I think I have told this before....but an instance we ran into--a customer was feeding straight wheat hay and the cows started going down. The vet said it was milk fever--but these cows hadn't calved yet. I looked into and found it was 'winter tetany (symptoms are similar to milk fever and grass tetany). Anyway, we were able to help by changing mineral formulations. Wheat hay contains a lot of phos and the cows weren't eating their mineral because phos is a limiter. So they had a cal-phos inbalance. He went to a lower phos mineral that the cows would consume and that fixed the problem. Had he been feeding a mix of wheat hay and grass hay, the problem most likely would not have reared its ugly head.

To me, alfalfa is a protein supplement, not to be fed as a total feed. That can cause other problems--but it is a great supplement for protein. You get a lot out of alfalfa that is missing in other protein supplements.

FWIW :D

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:42 pm
by littlejoe
they measure energy by burning it --it's measured as calories or btu's.
I was told when figuring feedlot energy rations, with fat---you figure the value and double it.

which makes a lotta sense, if you've ever tried to lose weight....

I liked the fat in your cake. I like to figure actual cost for what I'm looking for # of protein, etc. I quite cake when cost of making it exceeded all ingredients in it.

your quality of hay, if it was mine--I would be figuring on all I could cram thru them. I have bovatec in my mneral to help this.

cow input---after about the first day---is limited by cow 'output'--a little alf is great and roughage slows it down.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:52 pm
by littlejoe
FH:
"alfalfa hay is the finest feed source in the state of Montana--and--Hell--it ain't even named right! It ain't hay--it's protein supplement. When that ol' boy comes around , selling you his 'all natural' 20% prot supplement, tell him 'shoot, I got a stack of it out behind the barn, got 2 strings around each package--about 80$ a ton---how much is yours?"

I sure liked listening to Ray A
http://www.montana.edu/news/308/popular ... ing-awards

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:53 am
by Faster horses
FH:
"alfalfa hay is the finest feed source in the state of Montana--and--Hell--it ain't even named right! It ain't hay--it's protein supplement."

I do believe that's what I said.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:15 pm
by littlejoe
Yes, of course it is.

Just added a link to the most helpful, common sense--and funny---guy who helped me.

Re: Range cubes

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:10 pm
by TexasBred
Faster horses wrote:FH:
"alfalfa hay is the finest feed source in the state of Montana--and--Hell--it ain't even named right! It ain't hay--it's protein supplement."

I do believe that's what I said.

Actually for most beef operations it contains too much crude protein unless limit fed and should be fed as a mix with grass hay. No need wasting all that good protein by allowing it to end up on the ground without being utilized. The cow needs that roughage part of it as much if not more than she needs the high protein.