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publichunter
Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 149
Location: central, SD
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 Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Because the pilots are regulated by the Federal law administered by GF&P.
They dont need to get permission slips because the law does not require it LB. You do not have enough political pull to change the law, that is the basic reason.
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Happy go lucky
Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 204
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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LB you want your state CO's to get written permission for compliance checks? So lets get this straight they have the open fields doctrine which has been upheld by a high court, they issue the license and all hunters know they can be checked at anytime or any place before purchasing said license, the public owns the wildlife, and yet you want them to ask permission to check out hunters,fisherman or trappers? If the landowner says NO then what LB? You are opening up a can of worms of paoching of the worst kind with something that will handcuff them from doing there asigned job by the state.
How much more poaching would take place when someone gets behind the locked fence of 10,000+ acres? Let's see I charge 3,000 a deer hunt and I'm behind my locked up land and the CO is told go fly a kite your not comming on to check my hunters or do I even have hunters? 10,000-30,000 acres is alot of unseen ground. High dollar poaching hunts is what would come of it in more cases becuase they know as long as the landowner holds his ground they are protected from the laws that all must abide?
You want to take hunting back a few 100 years like the Brits and make it for those with the deepest pockets? The very idea that a CO can do compliance checks in it's own right is a big deterant to poaching!
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publichunter
Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 149
Location: central, SD
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Happy...you hit the coyote between the eyes.....nice shot
That is what they want....
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Liberty Belle
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1669
Location: northwestern South Dakota
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Happy go lucky wrote: |
LB you want your state CO's to get written permission for compliance checks? So lets get this straight they have the open fields doctrine which has been upheld by a high court, they issue the license and all hunters know they can be checked at anytime or any place before purchasing said license, the public owns the wildlife, and yet you want them to ask permission to check out hunters,fisherman or trappers? If the landowner says NO then what LB? You are opening up a can of worms of paoching of the worst kind with something that will handcuff them from doing there asigned job by the state.
How much more poaching would take place when someone gets behind the locked fence of 10,000+ acres? Let's see I charge 3,000 a deer hunt and I'm behind my locked up land and the CO is told go fly a kite your not comming on to check my hunters or do I even have hunters? 10,000-30,000 acres is alot of unseen ground. High dollar poaching hunts is what would come of it in more cases becuase they know as long as the landowner holds his ground they are protected from the laws that all must abide?
You want to take hunting back a few 100 years like the Brits and make it for those with the deepest pockets? The very idea that a CO can do compliance checks in it's own right is a big deterant to poaching! |
You are illustrating the mindset of most game and fish employees who consider landowners to be criminals who can’t be trusted on their own land. Hunters and fishermen are also considered to be lawbreakers by the game departments, but that evidently doesn’t bother the wildlife organizations.
I always figured you were a game warden and this post pretty well confirms my suspicion. This big-brother mindset is what brought on the lockout and this is why the lockout will continue. Scream and whine all you want boys. It isn’t helping your cause.
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Liberty Belle
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1669
Location: northwestern South Dakota
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| publichunter wrote: |
Because the pilots are regulated by the Federal law administered by GF&P.
They dont need to get permission slips because the law does not require it LB. You do not have enough political pull to change the law, that is the basic reason. |
I don’t know why I waste my time trying to further your education, but it is GF&P that requires the pilots to have written permission, not the feds. In most states aerial predator control pilots are regulated under APHIS. That wasn’t good enough for SD GF&P, they wanted the federal funds and they wanted to regulate aerial hunting programs that they knew almost nothing about. That is about to change because GF&P is losing control of aerial hunting and it will now be under APHIS in South Dakota too.
GF&P does not require their game wardens to have the same permission slips that their trappers have to get. Why is that? Are game wardens more important than trappers? Trying telling that to ~SH~!
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P Joe
Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 412
Location: Central SD
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Liberty Belle wrote: |
By getting written permission from the landowner to do those compliance checks on private land the same way that our predator control pilots have to get signed permission before they can kill predators on private land.
The permission slips that GF&P makes the pilots sign only last for three years. The permission slip for game wardens would last indefinitely and they could get them signed weeks, months or years before they need them. How burdensome could that possibly be? I should point out that the GF&P trappers are also supposed to have those signed permission slips before they go on private land.
GF&P doesn't think it's too burdensome for our pilots to have to get permission from landowners every three years. Why should the game warden be treated differently? Especially when checking hunters is not nearly as important as controlling predators that can be devastating to livestock producers. |
And what is GF&P suppose to do when told no?
We can take you theory and apply it to fishing regulations. Look how many people get nailed for over the limit on fish because GF&P is allowed to pull up to any boat for compliance checks. I know it keeps me from throughing an extra 1 or 2 fish in the live well.
Same thing with the SDHP, they can put road blocks up on any road for sobriety check points, which I consider compliance check.
I don't agree with a GF&P guy driving around a pasture, corn field looking for hunters. That to me is criminal trespass, but I don't disagree with a GF&P guy coming out onto my corn field to check my duck/goose hunters after they are done and picking up their decoys or coming out into my pasture after he saw me shoot a deer to make sure I have the proper tag.
If you close all private land to that, you eliminate any possible deterant to follow the laws.
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Liberty Belle
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1669
Location: northwestern South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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P Joe, the game warden driving around on private property with absolutely NO reason to be there was one of the things that touched off this firestorm. Until we have a law forbidding those actions from ever happening again, the lockout will continue.
We really don’t care if anyone else likes it or not, but then you’ve probably guessed that by now. GF&P is going to have to track hunters across public land because they aren't going to come in here.
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P Joe
Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 412
Location: Central SD
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Liberty Belle wrote: |
P Joe, the game warden driving around on private property with absolutely NO reason to be there was one of the things that touched off this firestorm. Until we have a law forbidding those actions from ever happening again, the lockout will continue.
We really don’t care if anyone else likes it or not, but then you’ve probably guessed that by now. GF&P is going to have to track hunters across public land because they aren't going to come in here. |
I understand that and agree. Which leads me back to one of my questions.
When have you caught a game warden on your personal property doing such???
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Liberty Belle
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1669
Location: northwestern South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| P Joe wrote: |
| Liberty Belle wrote: |
P Joe, the game warden driving around on private property with absolutely NO reason to be there was one of the things that touched off this firestorm. Until we have a law forbidding those actions from ever happening again, the lockout will continue.
We really don’t care if anyone else likes it or not, but then you’ve probably guessed that by now. GF&P is going to have to track hunters across public land because they aren't going to come in here. |
I understand that and agree. Which leads me back to one of my questions.
When have you caught a game warden on your personal property doing such??? |
We’ve never caught one on our place, although several of our neighbors have. I’ve also never caught anyone else trespassing, stealing, rustling, or shooting livestock on our place, but all four have happened. Do you think that we should overlook these things just because we haven’t caught the perpetrators?
There are laws on the books against rape, murder and arson. Should we overlook these crimes simply because none of them have happened on our land? If something is wrong, it’s wrong everywhere. It wasn’t just one game warden in one area that brought this problem to our attention. Trespass by GF&P has been a problem statewide and we refuse to allow it to continue.
If landowners in other parts of the state don’t mind having GF&P trespass on their property, that’s OK with us. We don’t care if you don’t mind them driving through your cornfields and hayfields. That’s up to you. They just better not try it here.
Now I want to let you know that the new game warden we have here is an absolute sweetheart who would never dream of trespassing or trampling on landowners rights. Unfortunately, this nice kid is in the minority and none of the GF&P employees that caused these problems in the past have been fired. Some have been transferred to other areas, but most are still in the communities where the problems occurred. This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners.
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kolanuraven
Rancher
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 6462
Location: planet earth
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Liberty Belle wrote: |
| This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners. |
It tells you how concerned they are with saving ' retirement'.
I have not had this problem...but some of the larger farms here have had problems with the Rangers coming in and out of fields and pastures, leaving gates open....driving thru fields that were plainly planted , etc, etc
It's not only SoDak that has these problems.
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 13949
Location: Northeast Montana
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P Joe
Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 412
Location: Central SD
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Liberty Belle wrote: |
We’ve never caught one on our place, although several of our neighbors have. I’ve also never caught anyone else trespassing, stealing, rustling, or shooting livestock on our place, but all four have happened. Do you think that we should overlook these things just because we haven’t caught the perpetrators?
Now I want to let you know that the new game warden we have here is an absolute sweetheart who would never dream of trespassing or trampling on landowners rights. Unfortunately, this nice kid is in the minority and none of the GF&P employees that caused these problems in the past have been fired. Some have been transferred to other areas, but most are still in the communities where the problems occurred. This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners. |
I never said it doesn't happen elsewheres, but are you not making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you have never had a problem with GF&P personally, I've never had the amount of trouble you claim, ahem....  your neighbors to have had, then don't you think it might be a personell problem more than a GF&P departmental problem??
Your reply really does make me laugh though, you seem to beat up on SDHunter, public hunter about reading and citing cases that support their point-of-view, yet you whole BEEF is HEAR SAY from what YOUR NEIGHBORS have complained about!!   
Funny isn't it??? Now before you go on a rant, let me shorten it up for you.
I don't care if you stay locked out, add new people to you lockout, or stay locked out thru the next 10 generations!!  I didn't type any of this to change you mind. You have shown you bias against GF&P, for whatever reason, and this whole lockout thing is some stupid way to vent your anger. You say you'll allow hunting again once the laws get changed. I can see that is just a farse. You'll never give in until you get GF&P shutdown, reorganized, or something similar. And it is truely sad to watch some one waste so much time because they are filled with resentment and anger!
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