he lays down when saddled/mounted

[Choclab]

I guess my comment wasn't too bad eh??? You can't baby a spoiled ass horse. Too many people wispering these days. I LOVE watching people with older spoiled horses.....as I ride by with my broke ass horse that I used to give lessons on. He was started under saddle with (dunt dunt duuuuunt) spurs!! His very first ride was with spurs. People with uneducated legs ALWAYS bitch about spurs. I use my spurs often and for all kinds of things, but I never spur for the heart. The only time I would rake a horse real good is when he would do something dangerous. I can't sell a horse that bucks, bites, kicks, or lays down. It's not a partnership.....it's a dictatorship, and I am in charge.

Don't cut him open, but let him know that when he goes down, he's gonna pay for it.


P.S......How in the hell can you compare spanking a kid for nothing to a spoiled, lazy sob horse who lays down (which is a reason for disapline)?

[codymccue]

used to buy spoiled broke horses of a canner friend of mine...only thing wrong with em was between their ears...
trick I learned from an old hand has served me well twice...once on this type of trouble and once on a mare that would rear over backwards...

when that hoss goes down,make im stay there...for hours...he won't be as likely to do it again...
leave halter and lead on and when he lays down,pull his head to the side,flatten im out and give the lead a couple of wraps on the horn.He'll decide for himself that layin down with a saddle on isn't for him if he can't get back up when HE wants.
mind yer on level ground and use an old saddle there could be some squirming involved.
I always found that them makin up their minds about somethin sticks harder than if you do it for them.

[gcreekrch]

[Blkbuckaroo]

LOL!!!!!!
Well we certainly have a live forum on this deal.My comparison was more my way of saying,i've riden alot of spoiled horses,there may have been a day when i felt like i had to spur the heck out of a horse to get a response,but these days that's generally a last resort.I have quite abit more skill then i did when i was younger and much more inexperienced,so i will try several things,and in this particular situation i personally think i could get the horse to move out without spuring right when i got on,That's just me,never said anyone else's way was wrong!!!Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride.By the way i can't sell a spoiled or dangerous horse either,and i spend lots of time riding outside horses so i like to get them where you don't spur to go forward,that's called having an independent seat!!You can use your legs,hands,voice.etc.Apperently no one saw my first response when i said be fair but only as fair as the horse is to you.I wear and use spurs!!It's how you use them and the severity!I let them know the spurs are there when i need to,and get outta there,plain and simple.By the way when your good to your horse,dose'nt mean your whispering or any such nonsense you hear people saying,some people like to take the time it takes to make a good solid horse that you feel comfortable putting your kids on.Is the horse spoiled,probably but you can work through it,nough said.Happy spurring!!LOL!

[Faster horses]

I very much liked and appreciated what you just posted, Blkbuckaroo!!

[Blkbuckaroo]

[OldDog/NewTricks]

Years ago... Was not of my Proudest moves but I Stop an act like this in TWO Lessons and Good Tough Cowboy Riding where I Became a Tourest

""HOT SHOT"" and Grab Leather... Horse never went down again:)

[gcreekrch]

Without getting myself in hot water again I'd like to clarify a couple of things I've posted
BlkBuckaroo stated " Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride" --- I couldn't agree with you more. There are a lot of clinicians out there that can help most anyone improve their horsemanship. I've found that if you learn 1 thing from any educational tool you use it was well worth it.
I do believe that "respect" and "consequences" are 2 words that don't seem to be used together much anymore whether it be horses, dogs, kids, or in some cases ourselves.
By respect I mean just that. It has no connection to fear. All fear does is create contempt.
By consequences I mean if you don't have respect, you WILL have to deal with the consequences. ie: If a horse throws itself.. no matter how gently he does it, he will learn that it is not an acceptable habit. It is up to him to find out how easy or difficult the lesson will be.
Choclab asked " How in the hell can you compare spanking a kid to a spoiled,lazy sob horse who lays down ( which is a reason for disapline)?
The whole animal kingdom (which we are a part of) disciplines their young for doing things that are unacceptable. How we acchieve that is up to us. (although I do believe that most animals are more consistant and better teachers of the unacceptable than we are) My belief is that the same rules of respect and consequence applies with our young too. The way a lot of the youth are today it seems this is a disappearing concept. For those of you that grew up in the early days of Sesame Street, you might remember the " what happens next " segments, compliments of Bert & Ernie. Those three words have something to do with everything WE do every day.
Back to my first post, if I hurt anyone's feelings or pride, please accept my sincere apologies. I was stating my opinion on the matter at hand.
Again: Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride.
Well Said
Yours Truly, gcreekrch

[Blkbuckaroo]

[Chuckie]

this is really turning out to be a kinda good thread!!

i totally agree w/FH (BTW---HOW ARE YOU ???? i'll pm tomorrow) on the young ones. ya don't cinch 'em up tight, it's gradual.

BUT....this guy's been around a little, and i'm thinking he needs maybe only a dose (or 2) of "consequences for actions" (that's how i train my dogs), but HE has to understand that the consequence for the action of lieing down when mounted is NOT GOOD.

or, he has to understand that NOT lieing down results in GOOD things.

ie either negative reinforcement or positive. i will ALWAYS try to train with positive reinforcement, which brings me to this problem: if i cinch the saddle a bit "loose" and immediately push him out on a longe-line (no round pen here ppl), isn't that, to his mind a "negative"?

i mean, he mostly has laid around w/his buddy for years, so why work?

or do we go to "MORE" negative, ie, cinch him up, walk him a minute, tighten cinch, mount, he goes down, put a spur (from ATOP) to him and have a rodeo?

so help me some more if you all don't mind--i can get into my GSD's head easy, but this frickin horse.....my 45 watt bulb still needs to go on i'm probly overthinkin' it, as usual...

[Chuckie]

[gcreekrch]