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Faster horses
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 9224
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 Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I judge some Trail Classes in small horse shows and I always give the kids an extra mark~in case of a tie~when they let their horse 'settle' from going foreward to backward, as happens in some of the classes. Too many try to go immediately from a foreward motion to backing up and the result isn't nice to watch. The horses are confused when asked to do that~and then they can't accomplish it with any kind of grace. Let them sit a moment and collect their thoughts and it is a much nicer transition. I also speak to the kids about allowing their horses to 'settle' and it is nice to see them pick up on it. It is just a little deal, but I think it helps. Helps the kids to collect their thoughts as well.
Same with working cattle in a corral. If you let those cows 'settle' a bit, they sure do work better. Not many talk about this, but it is very important, IMO.
As for the corner thing, I don't know if I can explain it any better but I will give it some thought and see if I can come up with a better example for you.
Thanks for your good posts. I always enjoy them.
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OldDog/NewTricks
Rancher
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 1789
Location: The Dam End of Silicon Valley
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: My thoughts |
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| You can find exceptions, but if I were to pick a breed in general to work with, it would be the Quarter Horse. Not only their general ability, but a karger market to sell into if you are trying to make and sell Quarter Horses. I wasn't trying to be arrogant. |
Even when I was ridden Morgan’s my personal breed was Quarter Horses – I’d get all the Morgan Mares settled and turn my yearling stud colts in to get an education – I’d get back real “Real Gentlemen” for Studs that know how to handle mares.
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| FH, I think stopping a young horse for a bit of reward/reprieve after doing something right is a good idea. I also think taking a few breaks and just sitting there on a young horse is a good idea. rives me crazy when I see someone on a new horse never stop between tasks. Sure, they need to learn transition, but they need to know when they have done it right in the start, |
A task - is a task - is a task and should have No Transition!
Transitions are for Lead Change, Full dead out Runs to a Sliding Stop, Spin to the Left and Then to the Right These take Transition
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| Also, I might misunderstand your corner deal. |
I try to not put a “youngster” in a place where he/she can be comprised – it’s to easy to get 8 hinges, and 2 sheets of plywood and cut them so you have 4 - 4X4 pannels – 45º your corners and install the hinges so the panels will swing back flat when you don’t need them. 45ºed corners help when starting horses or dogs.
Then
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| If I want a calf outta a corner, I pick a side and ride to it. I feel I can stay queit and ese into their flight zone. Actually, if done right, cattle will learn tio work with you. They will begin to look at you to "find the answer". Same if you use dogs on cattle. They work best once used to having the dogs around. |
All this works with dogs very will.
My Angus Cows would eat a dog but the cows will learn that a good dog under contorl is “Not Trouble” - - my dogs would learn to get right under my horse and weave to miss their feet until the cows found that they were not a threat. I could sit in the house and see all the cows heads come up - -STRANGE DOG, GET THE GUN!
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1496
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Old Dog,
I was talking different age horses and switching back and forth....
"A task - is a task - is a task and should have No Transition!
Transitions are for Lead Change, Full dead out Runs to a Sliding Stop, Spin to the Left and Then to the Right These take Transition "
I was trying to say young horses need to be built up to that. I see too many people trying to get a horse t turn and go the other way on the rail and they really don't have a horse dropping its hind end well at all. Young horses need to be built up to that.
Or maybe you wer knocking me on my choice of words??????
PPRM
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OldDog/NewTricks
Rancher
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 1789
Location: The Dam End of Silicon Valley
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| PPRM - Or maybe you wer knocking me on my choice of words?????? |
I never knock anyone who sounds as if they know from where they speak or wants to learn. I hope that fits both of us.
eMails and Post Threads are hard to read the right way - you can't see a persons face or hear whats in their voice - - with animal we just get at feeling - - good or bad - - I had a Working Bitch that taugh me that as hard as I try my Voice would change when she di something wrong. If my Voice changed, just a little, she'd leave me and go to the house,
That was a good lesson for me!
As for Horses:
Some people have asked me "How many horses have you finished?"
My answer - "NONE!"
V_Key, my daughter has learned to chim in
"He thinks Houses and People and Never Finished!"
In my ignorance you may find something YOU LIKE!
It's your's - - That how I got it!
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Jeannie
Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Who Cares?
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Morgans |
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| Cowgal wrote: |
Thanks Jeannie,
To tell you the truth, my gut instinct tells me my Morgan has it all. He is so sweet, easy going, likes everything he comes into contact with. Hell, I have miniature donkeys - and he and the jack, spar - they play and go at it like brothers. The Morgan outweighs the donkey by atleast 600 lbs. They obviously are still intact - but play like crazy! This is infact while both jenny and mare are in contact distance. No conflicts.
He has manners, is very polite and seems to understand I am boss.
He is black with midnight blues! |
I would go with my gut and see what happened. He sounds beautiful, but as I have always had a soft spot for buckskins and black horses, I may be a little biased!  
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Jeannie
Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Who Cares?
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="OldDog/NewTricks]The top Reining horse in the 50’s was Baby Doll a pinto – what you would call Paint now. Until the mid 60’s Pinto and Paints were Color patterns – In 64 65? The Paint Horse Assoc. came in to being and the color patterns became Tobeono & Overo (sp)[/quote]
As it was explained to me by a Paint Horse breeder (and I have seen this also), Paint and Pinto's are NOT the same. Pinto's are multi-colored horses whose color bleeds into the white areas, whereas a Paint does not do that. The brown/black/red hairs will not be found in the white areas on a Paint. There is a very clear line of demarcation with Paints that is not found with Pinto's.
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Faster horses
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 9224
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ...and a Paint horse must have at least one parent in the AQHA. Anyhow that is how it used to be. Now I think the book might be closed and the parents must both be registered Paints. But to start with, one parent must be registered.
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 14108
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Faster horses wrote: |
| ...and a Paint horse must have at least one parent in the AQHA. Anyhow that is how it used to be. Now I think the book might be closed and the parents must both be registered Paints. But to start with, one parent must be registered. |
Nope, apparently still open book for APHA-- You can still get AQHA stallions certified as sires for APHA.. Just did so last year with my palomino stud when a fellow wanted to breed 5 APHA mares to him......
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Faster horses
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 9224
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for clearing that up OT. I wasn't sure.
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Jeannie
Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Who Cares?
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Faster horses wrote: |
| ...and a Paint horse must have at least one parent in the AQHA. Anyhow that is how it used to be. Now I think the book might be closed and the parents must both be registered Paints. But to start with, one parent must be registered. |
I don't know about the 'must' part, but we have/had 4 horses whose mother is a registered quarter horse and father is a registered Paint that are registered with the APHA. Not that this matters, but I recently discovered that a registered Paint horse that is a solid color can only be shown in the breeder (I think that is what it's called) class. I thought that was interesting. Sorry for the rambling, it's late and I'm tired.
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OldDog/NewTricks
Rancher
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 1789
Location: The Dam End of Silicon Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: School Time |
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School Time for all of us
Paints
Paint's sire and dam must be registered with the American Paint Horse Association, the American Quarter Horse Association, or the Jockey Club (Thoroughbreds). To be eligible for the Regular Registry, the horse must also exhibit a minimum amount of white hair over unpigmented (pink) skin.
Each Paint Horse has a particular combination of white and any color of the equine spectrum: black, bay, brown, chestnut, dun, grullo, sorrel, palomino, buckskin, gray or roan.
Markings can be any shape or size, and located virtually anywhere on the Paint's body.
Although Paints come in a variety of colors with different markings, there are only three specific coat patterns: overo, tobiano and tovero.
Tobiano ?(pronounced: tow be yah' no)
In olden days 40’s and early 50’s these were “Pintos”
The “Cisco Kid” rode a Pinto
The dark color usually covers one or both flanks.
Generally, all four legs are white, at least below the hocks and knees.
Generally, the spots are regular and distinct as ovals or round patterns that extend down over the neck and chest, giving the appearance of a shield.
Head markings are like those of a solid-colored horse--solid, or with a blaze, strip, star or snip.
A tobiano may be either predominantly dark or white.
The tail is often two colors.
http://www.apha.com/breed/tobiano.html
Overo?(pronounced: oh vair' oh)
In olden day these were call “Paints”
We Old Timer used to call these “War Bonnett Paints
The white usually will not cross the back of the horse between its withers and its tail.
Generally, at least one and often all four legs are dark.
Generally, the white is irregular, and is rather scattered or splashy.
Head markings are distinctive, often bald-faced, apron-faced or bonnet-faced.
?An overo may be either predominantly dark or white.
The tail is usually one color.
http://www.apha.com/breed/overo.html
Tovero?(pronounced: tow vair' oh)
¿¿¿Where the Hell did these come from – in my time Oveo’s with white over the Loins Died???
Dark pigmentation around the ears, which may expand to cover the forehead and/or eyes.
One or both eyes blue.
Dark pigmentation around the mouth, which may extend up the sides of the face and form spots.
Chest spot(s) in varying sizes. These may also extend up the neck.
Flank spot(s) ranging in size. These are often accompanied by smaller spots that extend forward across the barrel, and up over the loin.
Spots, varying in size, at the base of the tail.
http://www.apha.com/breed/tovero.html
Back to Research – Never to old to learn
A friend and niabor “Buster Negglee was President of APHA in the 60’s
and I've had a few!
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OldDog/NewTricks
Rancher
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 1789
Location: The Dam End of Silicon Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Take a look at these sites
[url] http://www.apha.com/breed/geneticeq.html[/url]
Note:
At the whiter extreme, the frame overo pattern is responsible for lethal white foals. It is the pattern most closely associated with these foals.
Recent characterization of the gene involved in the lethal white foals has confirmed that the foals with two doses of the gene are white, and die soon after birth from gut innervation abnormalities. Horses with only one dose are frame overos, and survive.
This documentation is important for breeders of Paint Horses. With DNA tests now available for the frame gene (and the lethal white foals that can accompany it) it is possible to test breeding horses. Those with the gene can be mated to horses without it, resulting in about half frame and half nonspotted foals, but avoiding completely the production of lethal white foals.
Way past my bed time!
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