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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 16309
Location: Northeast Montana
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 Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| PPRM wrote: |
| Oldtimer wrote: |
Several of the local small plants that were trying to market a branded beef nationwide- that was USA born, raised, and slaughtered- went under mainly because they were not able to compete with generic/imported beef- when that generic/imported beef was being passed off to the customers as US with the USDA inspected stamp...
Under this law- and especially if Congress makes USDA enforce it the way it was supposed to be, which I believe will occur with the change of regime in D.C.- they stand a chance of making a go of it now.... |
I call Bullspit................
My Cost per head is $500 to process....My Net after that is about $2,000 per head. I am successful becase I raise Damned Good Meat that people Love. It is totally irrelevant what the imports cost....It is totally irrelevant what I do... I do not sit, p*** and moan about everyone else. I go out and make my stake. This is the USA, we have seemingly lost our individuality and become a group that has decided it is what others do that determines our fate...
My Packer (Small guy) is growing phenominally yearly.... The more average commodity stuff Tyson does, the better he does...
It is not rocket science...
These guys failed and have a convenient scapegoat... I can point to myself, Oregon Countrybeef and Painted hills. I can point to a dozen others in my state who have all done well. We are different that what you buy normally. It is the quality of our beef....
Too often I see the approach of "Buy it because I raise it"...I sell meat people will Love.It is what I do, not "What the Bad guys do"...
As Long a you blame others and wait for someone ele to change your position in life, you will reap the benefits of a socialistic society,
PPRM |
How many do you market a year- 100- 200? And to where? These guys were marketing 1000's- around the country- by shipping it direct...That raised the cost they had into them...Which to many it may have been worth it had they known that the chunk of beef being passed off to them as US with the USDA stamp actually came from Mexico.... But they were unable to use that for marketing because of the government supported deception... 
But you go on PPRM - Keep supporting government backed lying and deception to the US consumer...Keep supporting not being open and transparent...
To me that is like the horse traders of old- that I avoided with a passion...If they don't want to be honest with folks they deal with on one thing- how can you ever trust them on anything 
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| The crux of my arguement is that marketing works. Advertising works. Customers respond to it. You're in sales, you know that. |
Marketing works..Product of USA will get purchases until the first bad experience..Then it becomes meaningless...
You can get someone to buy something once.... Then the product itself determines the second purchase.....That is the differnece between CAB and Product of The USA... CAB is tied to quality eating experiences that have customers acknowledging something different....
You guys can sit on Product of USA as the deliverance from all of our probems. I am saying to be successful, go beyond that,
I never did say it was bad, I am saying longterm it will not do much, that is why I am not big on it,
PPRM
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Oldtimer wrote: |
| PPRM wrote: |
| Oldtimer wrote: |
Several of the local small plants that were trying to market a branded beef nationwide- that was USA born, raised, and slaughtered- went under mainly because they were not able to compete with generic/imported beef- when that generic/imported beef was being passed off to the customers as US with the USDA inspected stamp...
Under this law- and especially if Congress makes USDA enforce it the way it was supposed to be, which I believe will occur with the change of regime in D.C.- they stand a chance of making a go of it now.... |
I call Bullspit................
My Cost per head is $500 to process....My Net after that is about $2,000 per head. I am successful becase I raise Damned Good Meat that people Love. It is totally irrelevant what the imports cost....It is totally irrelevant what I do... I do not sit, p*** and moan about everyone else. I go out and make my stake. This is the USA, we have seemingly lost our individuality and become a group that has decided it is what others do that determines our fate...
My Packer (Small guy) is growing phenominally yearly.... The more average commodity stuff Tyson does, the better he does...
It is not rocket science...
These guys failed and have a convenient scapegoat... I can point to myself, Oregon Countrybeef and Painted hills. I can point to a dozen others in my state who have all done well. We are different that what you buy normally. It is the quality of our beef....
Too often I see the approach of "Buy it because I raise it"...I sell meat people will Love.It is what I do, not "What the Bad guys do"...
As Long a you blame others and wait for someone ele to change your position in life, you will reap the benefits of a socialistic society,
PPRM |
How many do you market a year- 100- 200? And to where? These guys were marketing 1000's- around the country- by shipping it direct...That raised the cost they had into them...Which to many it may have been worth it had they known that the chunk of beef being passed off to them as US with the USDA stamp actually came from Mexico.... But they were unable to use that for marketing because of the government supported deception...
But you go on PPRM - Keep supporting government backed lying and deception to the US consumer...Keep supporting not being open and transparent...
To me that is like the horse traders of old- that I avoided with a passion...If they don't want to be honest with folks they deal with on one thing- how can you ever trust them on anything |
Oldtimer,
You are right. I am not big..However, when I was a Sophomore in High School, I had three shirts..... My Parents were poor. I have come a long ways...And I am not done.
But, you focused only on me...Oregon Country Beef and Painted Hills are successful marketing Thousands... THey put thier name on it. These guys would be successful in a CAB Program, but recognized the more work you do for yourself, the better the paycheck... Kinda the American Way..
They did not sit on their hands saying-----
"If Only we didn't have Imports"
"If Only Tyson would pay us More"
"If Only the government would____"
"If Only Someone Else Would ___"
They went out and found the opportunities.... THe guys you tak about I will grant did try. Looks like they tried to out Tyson Tyson.... Tyson was better and survived. That is Capitalism.....
I am not guarented success for simply trying... THat is what our new Edcation teaches...Always a safety net... Kinda reminds me of the Banking Fiasco...
PPRM
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| If one bad experience sinks the boat, every product has got to be losing customers every day and thus in a death spiral. I'm sure that this very day, there were people that had an Angus product that they didn't think lived up to the billing. That means you can count them out. When are they going to run out of customers?
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| If one bad experience sinks the boat, every product has got to be losing customers every day and thus in a death spiral. I'm sure that this very day, there were people that had an Angus product that they didn't think lived up to the billing. That means you can count them out. When are they going to run out of customers? |
They haven't..They won't...
The overwhelming majority of the experiences are good. I will say more than 3 %..more than 30% of my Beef eating experiences are mediocre to poor... That puts it beyond imports being the problem. That is why i am saying go past that,
That is also why I start looking for brands that I have had good experiences with..CAB is an example... Oregon Country Beef is another...
Every Company knows it will lose customers to a bad experience as everyone makes mistakes The Problem is the overwhelming amount ofmediocre commodity Beef..That is also where he opportunity lies. Product of USA does nothing to ensure a god eating experience.
You keep thinking I am knocking Country Of Origin Labeling. Do it as much as you want to the extent and regimine you want... I am saying that by itself it does little....If you want better profits, you have to go beyond your meat being Comingled with everyone elses (In or out of the USA) at the point people buy it. I have seen Branded and Direct marketing guys go at it with the Tact "Buy from me Because I raise it"...People buy from you and become your customer because it is really good stuff. Product of USA does nothing to try to ensure it is really good stuff. Every US Tom, Dick and Harry can label "Product of USA" whether or not they are doing a good job...
Every Company knows (even CAB) knows they will make mistakes and lose customers. The thing is to have standards that minimize this. CAB's do, and then thier Marketing enables them to grow. Product of USA does not minimize to any extent even close...
PPRM
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I hear what you're saying PP, and you do have good points. However, I can't agree with your assumptions that there is such a wide disparity between the quality of Angus and "the rest" or that the average schmo could tell the difference. I think that is the basis for 90% of our disagreement.
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| I hear what you're saying PP, and you do have good points. However, I can't agree with your assumptions that there is such a wide disparity between the quality of Angus and "the rest" or that the average schmo could tell the difference. I think that is the basis for 90% of our disagreement. |
I think you are right on the 90% part....
It does not help when I just keep thinking of all of the great Angus BUrgers I have had at Burger King and my mouth salivates... It reinforces my rigidity on the issue, LOL...Now if you had used microsoft as the example...They do not have the best products and won the world with market execution....
If we all agreed on everything we would never move forward with new and innovative ideas...
I liken our Industry and its opportunites to that of the Beer Industry in the 80's....Miller, Coors and such companies grew and took over everyone else. yocould not beat them in the commodity beer market. However, many a milloinaire has been made in the Microbrew industry..And many a well intentioned entreprenuer has also failed. All parts of the business must be in place fo the whole to survive,
Enjoy the nights sleep and the week Sandhusker, This is our passion and fun,
PPRM
PPRM
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DiamondSCattleCo
Rancher
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1734
Location: NE Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
Why are you defending horseshit maneuvers designed to circumvent law and continue a practice of playing Canadian and US producers against themselves to keep cattle prices down?
How can I be a protectionist when I'm calling for the same treatment, the same labeling requirements for US and imports alike? |
I don't see it as a horseshit maneuver just because it goes against RQuack's INTENT. Nowhere and at no time did the COOL law ever mention or require segregation, just that the origin of beef be marked and its still being marked. At one time you said that you were concerned about outside beef being passed off as US because of the USDA stamp.
This can no longer be done so apparently you were concerned about more than that as the outside beef will be marked.
I believe you are protectionist because you realize that forcing segregation will truly be expensive, forcing packers to make a decision about whether or not they will process beef from other countries. Since outside beef only amounts to around 4 or 5% of your total processing, its a no-brainer what will be dropped. I think you're smart enough to understand that, and its pretty obvious it was R-Quack's intent from the beginning, therefore COOL (as you and RQuack see it being implemented) is really nothing more than a trade barrier or a protectionist act.
Rod
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Rod, I don't believe that segregation will be expensive at all. Heck, they're already doing it for Korea! It's a simple matter of scheduling. These guys are already sheduling when 1000s of animals come into their yards, what size of workforce it takes to process them, and then shipments to 1000s of vendors. It's going to be a big expense and bother to them to schedule Canadian cattle on Friday morning and Mexican on Friday afternoon?
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Ranchero
Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 100
Location: Sonora, Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: Good for you PPPRM. Aplaud. |
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| PPRM wrote: |
| Oldtimer wrote: |
Several of the local small plants that were trying to market a branded beef nationwide- that was USA born, raised, and slaughtered- went under mainly because they were not able to compete with generic/imported beef- when that generic/imported beef was being passed off to the customers as US with the USDA inspected stamp...
Under this law- and especially if Congress makes USDA enforce it the way it was supposed to be, which I believe will occur with the change of regime in D.C.- they stand a chance of making a go of it now.... |
I call Bullspit................
My Cost per head is $500 to process....My Net after that is about $2,000 per head. I am successful becase I raise Damned Good Meat that people Love. It is totally irrelevant what the imports cost....It is totally irrelevant what I do... I do not sit, p*** and moan about everyone else. I go out and make my stake. This is the USA, we have seemingly lost our individuality and become a group that has decided it is what others do that determines our fate...
My Packer (Small guy) is growing phenominally yearly.... The more average commodity stuff Tyson does, the better he does...
It is not rocket science...
These guys failed and have a convenient scapegoat... I can point to myself, Oregon Countrybeef and Painted hills. I can point to a dozen others in my state who have all done well. We are different that what you buy normally. It is the quality of our beef....
Too often I see the approach of "Buy it because I raise it"...I sell meat people will Love.It is what I do, not "What the Bad guys do"...
As Long a you blame others and wait for someone ele to change your position in life, you will reap the benefits of a socialistic society,
PPRM |
Good for you PPPRM. My hat is off. I agree with you completely. You've done something to put more dollars in your pocket without taking it out of the other guys. These whiners ought to get off their butts and do something themselves like you did/doing. And you didn't have to get in nobody elses business either.
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RobertMac
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2632
Location: Mississippi, USA
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| RobertMac wrote: |
The main reason CAB is successful is that it is a marketing tool for the packers. The quality specs position it between the H&R market and normal retail. The packers are paying more at the salebarn for black hides to move the USA cow herd toward one breed...the idea being that will bring consistency to their product, beef. Because of the premium for black calves, the USA cow herd is more black today...but here is the fly in the ointment. Percent Prime and High Choice have gone down with the increase in blackness. 
Sandhusker's original point that advertising works is undisputable!!! People ask for Angus because that is the name they have seen advertised. Unfortunately, most urban Americans think all cows are BLACK AND WHITE. Outside of the Merial Lynch(sp) bull(which obviously isn't Angus), how many black cattle do you see on TV???? Chick-fil-A??? |
I don't think anyone has disputed CAB has done a great job marketing. And I also think we are lockstep in saying the reason people get a consistently good experience with CAB products is where the Quality Specs place it.
Black hide responsible for decrease in Prime and Choice? Thi did not happen in a vacume. The peak of Choice and Prime was during the period of British Breed Dominance. The rise of Continental and Bos Indicas crosses correspond to this. Feeding has changed a lot as well...Especially in the west, we have a prevelance of feeding Food Processing by products to cheapen rations and diluting the corn portion....
The other thing is the time factor. The age of clves being slaughtered has gone way down. Breed, feedng and age are hugely responsible. The Calves I send to Tyson hit about 85% Choice, so I think know a little about the things that affect grade....
Within the Angus Breed, there has been pressure for traits other than Marbing for a long time and the uniformity of the breed itself has gotten less so.
I am not sayng the Breeders in the orginzation don't bear some blame, I am just saying if you think Angus influence is the predominant factor, it is ignoring things that have happened as a whole,
PPRM
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