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don
Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 994
Location: saskatchewan
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 Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| if they put 'source unknown' on every package they're going to label product of usa/mexico/canada it probably would be less healthy for beef demand.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| PPRM wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
What I'm saying, and what the law is intended, is that beef be HONESTLY labeled as ACCURATELY as possible. If you've got beef from an animal that spent 100% of it's life in the US, an honest and accurate label would reflect that. Same for a Canadian animal, Mexican, Australian, etc..... I don't know why I'm explaining this to when we both know what the lawmakers were intending and we both know that the packers are playing Clinton lawyer games. Why are you defending horseshit maneuvers designed to circumvent law and continue a practice of playing Canadian and US producers against themselves to keep cattle prices down?
How can I be a protectionist when I'm calling for the same treatment, the same labeling requirements for US and imports alike? |
I agree that the Loopholes don't align with the intent of the law. Actually, rather than "Product of US/Mexico or Canada", I would like to see "Source unkown"... That would be more accurate.
Perhaps COOL ultimately shows we really do not know where our meat comes from. Some products end themselves to source id much more easily than Beef...But that oes not mean we should Spin it into something it is not,
PPRM |
They know with certainty where every animal they slaughter comes from TODAY. There is absolutely no reason to label "unknown". If the animal ever crossed from Mexico, it has an "M" brand on the jaw. If it came from Canada, it either has a "CAN" brand or it was shipped directly from Canada with papers. If there is no M, CAN, or direct shipment, it's US. It's that dang simple.
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ok...Do all the Country of Origin Labeling you want..I personally do not care...
The reason? I was on a cruise and had "Midwest Grown Corn Fed 30 Days dry Aged" beef at several Restaurants. My expectations were high as I had had some great Steaks in the Past.
I believe it was New Yorks I chose. The reason say that is it was boneless and after eating both I felt ripped off. I told both restaurants that I was pretty certain I had just been fed a ROUND STEAK! I was assured it was New Yorks I had. They were tough and had no flavor...
I will never be excited and as anxious for such a steak again. I am pretty sure eveything could have been accurate except that the steaks likely came from some poorer animal...
So, the first few poor eating experiences by any country of origin will make the label pretty meaningless. People will look to other indicators of a quality eating experience, Like CAB...
However, you brought up the Certified Angus program. It is different in that there are quality standards that directly affect the eating experience that the program is tied to....
Label all you want. The one thing I have found is if you want to get paid for a preference to the calves you produce, the more you do for yourself the more you will get paid,
PPRM
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Bill
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2028
Location: GWN
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| However, you brought up the Certified Angus program. It is different in that there are quality standards that directly affect the eating experience that the program is tied to.... |
Some excellent points PPRM and you brought up the obvious which Sadhusker fails to mention. While CAB has quality parameters attached to it, COOL identified or "American by Default" beef does not.
Sadhusker's argument is solely based on buying American and not on the quality AND consistency that a branded program can offer.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill wrote: |
| Quote: |
| However, you brought up the Certified Angus program. It is different in that there are quality standards that directly affect the eating experience that the program is tied to.... |
Some excellent points PPRM and you brought up the obvious which Sadhusker fails to mention. While CAB has quality parameters attached to it, COOL identified or "American by Default" beef does not.
Sadhusker's argument is solely based on buying American and not on the quality AND consistency that a branded program can offer. |
What you fail to mention is that the requirements to make CAB are so loose that there really is no difference between CAB and "the rest". Any of my Maines qualify for CAB and will eat the same whether they've got the CAB label or not.
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
What you fail to mention is that the requirements to make CAB are so loose that there really is no difference between CAB and "the rest". Any of my Maines qualify for CAB and will eat the same whether they've got the CAB label or not. |
Loose? I have to disagree, but then, I have sold calves on the grid where you get these premiums....... Here are some facts.
1) Less than 8% of beef meets the highest standards to become the Certified Angus Beef
2) The MAJORITY of US Choice does not make it. Not only Hide Color restricts this, but also it is the high end Choice they take. I have had Black hided cattle that graded Choice not make it...
3) While they do proclaim standards of less than 1000 pound carcasses and a pretty big Variance in Rib-Eye size ( I think those standards could be tightened), the success of the program shows me they are able to manage the cuts in acordance to the carcass size they are getting,
Sandhusker, do you have the carcass evalutions from your cattle to back that they would or would not make grade? I sell on the grid when my calf numbers outstrip my direct sales customer base, so yes, I do. CAB is not a given for Black Hided...
However, Product of the USA..... It is a cakewalk with the veification. I am pretty certain more than 8% of US cattle will make that mark. Regardless of if they are Standard or High Choice. Yet, you knock a program with higher standards...
PPRM
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Bill
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2028
Location: GWN
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| Bill wrote: |
| Quote: |
| However, you brought up the Certified Angus program. It is different in that there are quality standards that directly affect the eating experience that the program is tied to.... |
Some excellent points PPRM and you brought up the obvious which Sadhusker fails to mention. While CAB has quality parameters attached to it, COOL identified or "American by Default" beef does not.
Sadhusker's argument is solely based on buying American and not on the quality AND consistency that a branded program can offer. |
What you fail to mention is that the requirements to make CAB are so loose that there really is no difference between CAB and "the rest". Any of my Maines qualify for CAB and will eat the same whether they've got the CAB label or not. |
Are you so biased towards your arguement that you honestly believe what you wrote?
Of course CAB is loose as far as genetics or breed makeup is concerned. many have pointed that out including me. It is the quality and grade parameters we are discussing that feeds into the success of CAB and consumer buy in of the name. None of which are attached to COOL.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Take Hardees Angus burger; You get a burger with ketchup, pickles, onions, sauce, etc.... Are you going to tell me that Joe Blow from Chicago can pick up any burger and tell the difference between one who's beef came from a choice flank from a select chuck?
Also, we all know that the current standards for selecting quality are antiquated and not truly reflective of what seperates the "good" from the "bad".
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
Take Hardees Angus burger; You get a burger with ketchup, pickles, onions, sauce, etc.... Are you going to tell me that Joe Blow from Chicago can pick up any burger and tell the difference between one who's beef came from a choice flank from a select chuck?
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Sandhusker,
You picked the program to make your point. It was not a good one...
My full time job is Sales. What I have talked about is nothing new or unique. You can do all sorts of things to get someone to try something once. It is the product that brings them bac. in this case it is the eating experience.
So, my answer is "Yes" there is a repeatable difference the average consumer can recognize. That he can say the calf was black, no..But the flavor of the product is a repeatable experience that brings the customer back....
How true is it? One of the top questions I get at Farmers Markets is the Breed. People recognize the Angus difference because of BOTH Marketing and the quality....
I am not as familiar with Hardees. However, I do prefer an Angus Burger from Burger King. It has great flavor. I am enough of a meat connisuer to know real differences.
I am not at all saying angus has not done a good job of Marketing. They are the best in the industry in my Opinion.... I would like to see some numbers for Certified Hereford... My hope is they are doing as well,I just do not now...
However, I am saying the reason they have stayed up there IS the flavor is great and repeatable....
| Quote: |
| Also, we all know that the current standards for selecting quality are antiquated and not truly reflective of what seperates the "good" from the "bad". |
In some cases you are right, but Choice will generally be better than Select.....Dry aging makes a big difference as does stress... If everything is equal (Feeding, stress, ect), Choice will be better than Select.... It will be more flavorfull and tender....
However, the crux of your arguement seemsto be that Country of origin is more important than Quality grades in determining a repeatable experience of quality. Go back a post or two concerning my "Midwest Corn Fed Aged Beef" Example. It had location of origin....It was crap...CAB Is determined by Quality Grade... I have never had a bad CAB Burger at Burger King... I have never had a Bad CAB Steak... That is remarkable...
But, lets go with your statement that it is antiquated and has no reflection on uality..Show me how Country of Origin has been shown to be the determining factor of flavor and tenderness???
PPRM
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 16315
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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PPRM- your the one that stands the most to gain from M-COOL-- as soon as more consumers in your area realize that much of the product that is in the stores does not come from the USA- and that the USDA stamp does not guarantee US product...
Several of the local small plants that were trying to market a branded beef nationwide- that was USA born, raised, and slaughtered- went under mainly because they were not able to compete with generic/imported beef- when that generic/imported beef was being passed off to the customers as US with the USDA inspected stamp...
Under this law- and especially if Congress makes USDA enforce it the way it was supposed to be, which I believe will occur with the change of regime in D.C.- they stand a chance of making a go of it now....
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PPRM
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 1589
Location: NE Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Oldtimer wrote: |
Several of the local small plants that were trying to market a branded beef nationwide- that was USA born, raised, and slaughtered- went under mainly because they were not able to compete with generic/imported beef- when that generic/imported beef was being passed off to the customers as US with the USDA inspected stamp...
Under this law- and especially if Congress makes USDA enforce it the way it was supposed to be, which I believe will occur with the change of regime in D.C.- they stand a chance of making a go of it now.... |
I call Bullspit................
My Cost per head is $500 to process....My Net after that is about $2,000 per head. I am successful becase I raise Damned Good Meat that people Love. It is totally irrelevant what the imports cost....It is totally irrelevant what I do... I do not sit, p*** and moan about everyone else. I go out and make my stake. This is the USA, we have seemingly lost our individuality and become a group that has decided it is what others do that determines our fate...
My Packer (Small guy) is growing phenominally yearly.... The more average commodity stuff Tyson does, the better he does...
It is not rocket science...
These guys failed and have a convenient scapegoat... I can point to myself, Oregon Countrybeef and Painted hills. I can point to a dozen others in my state who have all done well. We are different that what you buy normally. It is the quality of our beef....
Too often I see the approach of "Buy it because I raise it"...I sell meat people will Love.It is what I do, not "What the Bad guys do"...
As Long a you blame others and wait for someone ele to change your position in life, you will reap the benefits of a socialistic society,
PPRM
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12283
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| The crux of my arguement is that marketing works. Advertising works. Customers respond to it. You're in sales, you know that.
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