Line breeding in horses. Do's & don'ts?

[Ranchero]

I have 2 registered AQHA mares that foaled in 2003, one had a filly and one a stud colt. One of the mares is a grand-daughter to EasyJet and the other is a great-granddaughter. Both of the foals were sired by the same AQHA Foundation stud, thereby making them half-brother and half-sister.
Question: 1) Would it be OK to breed the half-brother to his half-sister?
2) Would it be OK to breed the stud colt to the EasyJet grand- daughter mare, since he is out of an EasyJet GREAT-grand- daughter? Both of the mares have un-related mothers.
I would greatly appreciate any input or recomendations regarding this subject.

[BEN PASCOE]

IF IT WORKS ITS CALLED LINE BREEDING, IF IT DONT ITS IN-BREEDING, ITS THE LUCK OF THE DRAW, YOU HAVE A 50-50 SHOT AT IT, I HAVE BREED A FULL BRITHER AND SISTER AND GOT A GOOD COLT, BUT IT DOESNT WOORK EVERY TIME, A GOOD COLT THIS TIME, NOT THE NEXT. YOU NEVER KNOW, AND IT COULD COME BACK ON THE GOOD COLT IN THE NEXT GENERATION.

[sw]

1) don't do, you may be concentrating like genes of a bad trait or you could concentrate the genes of a good trait, don't take the chance.
2) some different gene pool added, less chance of concentrating genes, go for it, I have a double bred Hancock right now that is pretty awesome.

[OldDog/NewTricks]

I have Tested my line every now and then

Crosses that seam to work
Father X Daughter
Brother X Sister
1/2 Brother X 1/2 Sister

Mother X Son = Look out - Bad X

Just my experance - - I've found 1 or 2 Bred troubles this way and put whole Litters down

[/list]

[Faster horses]

I'm sure that everyone knows that when you line-breed or inbreed, you magnify the good traits. You also magnify the bad ones. So if you are contemplating doing this, you need to reasearch genetics to find what bad traits are there. It shouldn't be just a happenstance mating, with your fingers crossed. A live animal is produced as a result.

It would scare me. Why take a chance when there are so many good horses out there to breed to?

[Oldtimer]

I agree with FH... I've had a few catch colts that were inbred- one I remember was dumber than a post and never did turn out....I had a 5 year old gelding I sold last year that was a catch colt (his sire was his 1/2 brother)- he turned out to be a really good horse-very athletic and cowy...

First thing you need to decide in making a breeding decision is what do you want from your foal--ranch horse, specialty arena horse, cutter, show, etc.--what are you hoping for in size--breed up size, breed down....What trait does each mare have that you want to improve, or do away with- better withers, better feet, more muscle, more speed, cowsense, etc.?... With all the proven stallions out there you can get some pretty good guarantees of what they will throw into the mix...

[OldDog/NewTricks]

The First thing one must decide is
Are You Going to be a Breeder or a Collector?

As a Breeder I have to know what I am breeding is producing - - because some Breeders tend to ignore or just plane lie I had to develop the Guts to do what it take to look honestly at what I am producing. (Horses, Cattle, Sheep, Dogs, and more)

One of my Line Breedings produced a Monorcid (sp) (one testical) offspring - - It took 2 years of Detective work weeding through the Lies and Untruths to track this down.

It HURT but I had to take drastic steps to stop that Line on our place and in MY History as a Breeder.

50 years ± ago a Highly Respected Augus Breeder told me:
A Breeder/Detective that wants to keep Friends must learn to keep their mouth shut.

My wisdom:
An open mouth gathers more Lies

Just Produce - Let Time and Others Brag For Ya

I'll ad one more:
A Stable Blind Breeder can't be a Good Breeder

[Chuckie]

FWIW: years ago i worked for a horse breeder that had 2 really high priced stallions; one was an old-time bred (ie, not really fashionable with the show crowd) guy, classic build for the breed and threw that and his sweet personality to his colts. the only thing this guy asked was a mare in the stall next to him: if the mare was taken out for teasing/breeding, he'd yell about it, but calm down as soon as (any) mare came back next door. these were solid walls, 14' high between stalls. apple-boy KNEW if there was a mare next door....

the other stallion they stood was much more fashionable--he sired babies with a lot more "fire" and "action", but unfortunately, there was the occasional club-footed foal. these were NEVER mentioned, free services were offered if everyone involved kept their mouth shut, etc, etc.

the real kicker in my book was, this stallion was a man-killer. he had to be chained up from outside his stall (after being suckered with grain to get him close enough to hook a chain to his halter), in order to even clean his stall--he'd run a groom underneath his hay-feeder twice before they figured that out (and this was a corner feeder, a good thing the groom was 1) tiny and 2) had no other options for employment). this stallion would try to go thru the stall to get at you if you were sweeping the aisle in front of his stall--i used to try to de-condition him by sweeping the aisle in front of him over and over, but it just made him crazier.

i was young, what the hey. my point is, i don't care how pretty they are, if they don't do what they're supposed to do, what's the point? who cares what they look like, if they don't perform, get rid of 'em.

the bottom line was, and is, if a bad breeding gets the money, people will do it, in any type of breeding--look at history... bette quit again. but it's one og my pet peeves..lol

[Faster horses]

One of my pet peeves breeding horses is the fact that if someone gets a mare to ride and she isn't very good; either bad temperment, unsound, rough riding, WHAT EVER~they will just breed her. Has anyone besides me ever noticed this?

Personally, I think the mare has more to do with how the colt turns out, than the stallion does. After all, that colt lives with the mare til it is weaned. Not enough people ride their mares before they breed them and don't really know what good or bad traits the mare has.

[Northern Rancher]

We never breed a mare that we don't use-unless it's to raise a bucker.

[OldDog/NewTricks]

Mares
It NOT WHAT she KNOWS - I don't have to ride a mare to deside if she has brains or personally and I can watch her move and tell if she's rough or smooth.

Now Studs
So much has to do with the way they were raised and Handled. I can watch a Handler in public and see how he handles himself around women, childern, others and just about tell you how his Stud will act.

I like to settle the mares and turn my yearling Studs out with them - Young Studs sure learn their Manners from old settled mares as they come in to age and the mares seem to know their babies. I've never had a colt hurt badly.

Give me a Stud for two weeks and I'll give back a "Gentleman" (or a dead horse) how long he stays that way is up to you. (I have yet to hurt a horse badly)

The worst stud I've seen was "Silky Sullivan" - he put the two Handlers before me in Traction while still in his stall. The first time I handled him was fun - I had his lead in my left hand and my right hand in his halter to keep him OFF me. 30' from the breeding shute he went up on his hind legs taking me for a ride.

In 10 days he could be ready to mount and I'd raddle his chain and he'd back off.

You want to get their respect and teach them NOT brake their sprit.

"Holly Ember" was to smart for his oun good - I had him one week when I took him to a Parady of Stallions - a lady came up and was petting him - asked his name and jumped back saying his a killer!

Not any more! I said

[OldDog/NewTricks]

Northern Rancher
Don't look DOWN on Buckers - There are Good and Bad

The Good ones have it all - Brains, Personallity, Coordination, and rough or smooth are Tuff to Ride - ENJOY their work and Live Well